If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?
- Thread starter pittsburghjoe
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
-Luke 21:9-17 King James Version
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you (Some of God's elects) shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
-God's elects get Jailed or killed
- The Gathering does not occur until the falling away of the church (apostasy, nonelects will no longer endure sound doctrine=2 Timothy 4:3-4) first and the man of sin (Satan) revealed. The gathering does not occur until Jesus returns. Jesus returns to destroy the man of sin (throws Satan into lake of fire) which would means the church is not gathered, until after the tribulation when Jesus shows up. Resurrection/Rapture and Second Coming of Jesus is same event. Matthew 24:31 and 2 Thessalonians 2
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you (Some of God's elects) shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
-God's elects get Jailed or killed
- The Gathering does not occur until the falling away of the church (apostasy, nonelects will no longer endure sound doctrine=2 Timothy 4:3-4) first and the man of sin (Satan) revealed. The gathering does not occur until Jesus returns. Jesus returns to destroy the man of sin (throws Satan into lake of fire) which would means the church is not gathered, until after the tribulation when Jesus shows up. Resurrection/Rapture and Second Coming of Jesus is same event. Matthew 24:31 and 2 Thessalonians 2
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages.
-
1
- Show all
The sentiment is understandable from our perspective...but do you think you're letting your heart get in the way of understanding His perspective? Your comment reminds me of the Messiah's parable about the workers in the field, specifically the portion in bold.
Matthew 20:1-16
20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.
“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”
We are workers who were "hired" much earlier than those who will come in at the last hour (Millenium)...but then we've begun working much later than those who were first hired (i.e. the apostles and disciples). And yet, we all get the same wage amount: salvation. We will have been paid what we were promised, so why do we begrudge those remaining who receive what Messiah promised them because they come in later? The deal is between Messiah and that person...and it's His "wealth".
Matthew 20:1-16
20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.
“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”
We are workers who were "hired" much earlier than those who will come in at the last hour (Millenium)...but then we've begun working much later than those who were first hired (i.e. the apostles and disciples). And yet, we all get the same wage amount: salvation. We will have been paid what we were promised, so why do we begrudge those remaining who receive what Messiah promised them because they come in later? The deal is between Messiah and that person...and it's His "wealth".
Paul did not need to specify His Coming as the 'Second' for this was a 'no-brainer' for them as they relied on the Prophetic Word that is in the Prophets and the words of Christ Himself.
But here is just one for you = Hebrews 9:28
Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
But here is just one for you = Hebrews 9:28
Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Two dead giveaways that Paul is speaking of the Second coming "the second time" and "He will appear."
When speaking to the Church in Thes. and Cor. he never mentioned either! That was because he was not speaking of the Second Coming!
The rapture is not in view here with the Christian Jews, the reign of Christ as High Priest is in view here for the Jews, which takes place at the Second Coming.
Here in the book of Hebrews, Paul is making a case for Christ as the High Priest. This is what the new Christian Jews could relate to.
When speaking to the Church in Thes. and Cor. he never mentioned either! That was because he was not speaking of the Second Coming!
The rapture is not in view here with the Christian Jews, the reign of Christ as High Priest is in view here for the Jews, which takes place at the Second Coming.
Here in the book of Hebrews, Paul is making a case for Christ as the High Priest. This is what the new Christian Jews could relate to.
David, if there was clear scripture for it there would not have been all this arguing over it for the past 20 centuries or so.
The answer is in "rightly dividing the Word of truth." That is something many will not take the time to do and folks like myself have beat their brains out doing for others. Sooner or later they catch on, or not!
The answer is in "rightly dividing the Word of truth." That is something many will not take the time to do and folks like myself have beat their brains out doing for others. Sooner or later they catch on, or not!
isn’t the reign in sion ? Which is on heaven ?
“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,”
Hebrews 12:22 KJV
“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.”
Revelation 14:1 KJV
John is seeing the heavenly kingdom of Christ where he is already seated and reigning in heaven. That’s where the saints are ruling and have been it’s what the gospel promises
Rejected in this world because of the gospel?
“Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”
Matthew 5:12
Christians need to look into the reality of heaven and the truth that it’s occurring simultaneously with the events on earth there are two layers of one crearion both active but earth can’t see into heaven we have to believe to see what comes after this world
“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,”
Hebrews 12:22 KJV
“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.”
Revelation 14:1 KJV
John is seeing the heavenly kingdom of Christ where he is already seated and reigning in heaven. That’s where the saints are ruling and have been it’s what the gospel promises
Rejected in this world because of the gospel?
“Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”
Matthew 5:12
Christians need to look into the reality of heaven and the truth that it’s occurring simultaneously with the events on earth there are two layers of one crearion both active but earth can’t see into heaven we have to believe to see what comes after this world
#1. There is no clear Scripture on your viewpoint because it never came out of the Mouth of God.
#2. Because of men/women who do not 'rightly divide the word of Truth' there is confusion that they speak.
They commit a very grievous sin by violating the commandment of our LORD by 'adding to and taking away' from His Words.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2 , Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18-19
#3 Since you are unable to prove your viewpoint, it would be wisdom and Blessing for you to humble your heart before the LORD Jesus Christ for saying things HE never taught, nor the Apostles, nor the Prophets.
PEACE and Blessing when we take refuge under His Word.
#2. Because of men/women who do not 'rightly divide the word of Truth' there is confusion that they speak.
They commit a very grievous sin by violating the commandment of our LORD by 'adding to and taking away' from His Words.
Deuteronomy 4:1-2 , Proverbs 30:5-6 , Revelation 22:18-19
#3 Since you are unable to prove your viewpoint, it would be wisdom and Blessing for you to humble your heart before the LORD Jesus Christ for saying things HE never taught, nor the Apostles, nor the Prophets.
PEACE and Blessing when we take refuge under His Word.
