Jesus' Command in Matthew 28:19

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justbyfaith

Well-known member
#41
Sep 16, 2021
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#41
oyster67 said:
No. One does not explain and define something by simply repeating it. Jesus tells us that when He said "water", He was referring to the flesh birth. Your mother did not birth a baptismal tub. Are you suggesting that your mother is a baptismal tub? :confused:
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non sequitur.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#42
May 24, 2014
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#42
justbyfaith said:
No; that is identified as "amniotic fluid" and it is slightly different from water.
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Yes, amniotic fluid has always been referred to as "water", but I am so impressed by your bloated vocab that I gave you a big thumb.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#44
Dec 6, 2016
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#44
Pilgrimshope said:
great post thanks for sharing !!

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬
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This is truly the truth of the Lord, but we must remember that Christ is God, not Christ replaces God.

Christ made that clear in Matthew 5:16-17 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them."
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#46
Sep 2, 2020
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#46
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#47
Nov 27, 2018
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#47
The word states that all can know if their understanding is correct on any given topic. How? Through the confirmation of at least 2-3 scriptures. This principle applies to how a person is to be water baptized.

We know Jesus said to baptize in the NAME of... That one scripture states a name is to be used. This truth is then confirmed by all of the detailed water baptism records in the entire bible. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) To ignore what is so clearly confirmed in the word is not using wisdom. Complying with a tradition that was begun some 300 years later is actually being disobedient to the command that Jesus gave in Matthew 28:19.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#48
Nov 27, 2018
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#48
infinitekhanol said:
The point is that, it does not matter whether one is baptised in the name of the father, the Son and the holy Ghost or in the name of Jesus. Both fulfils the standard Jesus gave on how one should be baptised.
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Consider what Isaiah reveals about the Father, Son and Holy Ghost:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6
 
F

FreeGrace2

Banned
#50
Jan 31, 2021
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#50
Wansvic said:
Anyone who wishes to understand what Jesus meant in Matthew 28:19 need only to look up each detailed water baptism recorded
p_rehbein said:
Wow! Glad you told me that. For awhile there I thought Jesus SAID WHAT HE MEANT. Guess He was confused, and we have to look at the Apostles to see what Jesus really meant huh?

19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Even a Third Grader could understand............why do so many "scholars" stumble at the meaning?
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The other poster believes that water baptism is required for salvation. He is fixated on water baptism. He reads 1 Peter 3:21 as "it is the symbol that saves". His very words!!

The real focus should be on to whom the Great Commission was given. It seems most evangelicals today assume the GC is for every believer, but without thinking this through. If it is for every believer, then EVERY believer must become a missionary and travel throughout the world, because that is the command that Jesus gave.

Rather, the GC was Jesus' "marching orders" for the 11 disciples (apostles) for the purpose of establishing local churches through the known world. The command was NOT directed to all believers, just the 11.

And later, Paul was chosen as well. The key point is that the GC was given face to face by Jesus to 12 men. And they all obeyed the command that Jesus gave them.

So, if the GC wasn't for all believers, then what is our responsibility?

Col 4:6 - Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

1 Peter 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

Every believer must be prepared to give a solid biblical answer for everyone who asks.

This means if believers are living a Spirit-filled life, one that is supernatural, people will be drawn to you with questions.

So, hopefully, all believers are being asked about the hope (confidence) they have. :)
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#51
#51
p_rehbein said:
Wow! Glad you told me that. For awhile there I thought Jesus SAID WHAT HE MEANT. Guess He was confused, and we have to look at the Apostles to see what Jesus really meant huh?

19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Even a Third Grader could understand............why do so many "scholars" stumble at the meaning? Jesus could have not been more clear, but, since some groups don't believe in the Trinity or the Holy Ghost, or His indwelling presence, they corrupt the Commandment of Jesus and change it to just "in the name of Jesus." Sad, truly sad......

Not surprised though. There are more Scriptures where Jesus spoke quite clearly, and some groups completely ignore what Jesus said, or pretend it has a "hidden meaning."


, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
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exactly!

wansvic is Oneness Pentecostal and they do not believe in the Trinity despite the overwhelming evidence that God is not one in the sense they attemtp to say

they believe Jesus is a manifesation of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit

of course that would be impossible since God says let US make man in our image

the Bible records that one Jesus' work on this earth was finished, He sat down at the right hand of the Father

what kind of apostasy and hypocritical refusal to see these truths and others, creates such a hard heart that no amount of biblical proof will move a person from their ridiculous position of ignoring anything from scripture that contradicts their erroneous interpretations!?!
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#52
#52
here is a post I made in another one of wansvics water threads:

The names of God actually point to plurality of persons. For example, the Hebrew word translated as God in Genesis and also in more than 2700 other places in the OT, is Elohim. This word means 'more than one' If Genesis 1:1 began with the Hebrew word 'El' it would have been singular, but this noun was not used. So, we have a plural name for God used over 2700 times in the OT and yet the Oneness group would have you believe this is not true.

In the beginning, ELOHIM created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 3:22, we read 'the man has become as one of us'. Well who is the US? Elohim...not El

Two Lords are mentioned in Genesis 19:24, two Lords sit side by side in Psalms 110: 1-5 among other such references in scripture

Yet, the Oneness Pentecostals will overlook these facts, change the subject or attempt to state that is not what the author meant

There is actually only ONE place in scripture where it is stated that Jesus is the Father, Isaiah 9...but this is a Hebrew idiom describing the terminology of the Jews. We know that while Jesus was on earth, he prayed to His Father in heaven and a voice from heaven spoke when He was baptized by John.

Scripture also states that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

It is mind boggling how people can try to teach that no Godhead exists.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#53
#53
KelbyofGod said:
The reason I asked is that I see more than one.
Jesus had to die on the cross. That happened at one point.
Jesus had to rise from the grave. That happened at a different point.
The apostles had to believe. That happened at yet another point.
Jesus had to depart (ascend) to his father. That's another aspect that happened at another point.

And we haven't even reached the outpouring of the Holy Ghost. (which happened at yet another point.)

God obviously had no problem with salvation being something that takes more than one second and more than one aspect to accomplish. I don't get why men are so fixated with the notion that everything must happen at a singular point.

Sorry it took me so long to reply.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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the moment in time was when Christ stated 'IT IS FINISHED' on the cross and at that point HE GAVE UP HIS LIFE...He laid it down; no one took it from Him

it you and a few others here that wish to somehow bisect that one moment and add to salvation

yours is a very strange view and not biblical

everything that happened after that, was a result of that one moment in time

get real
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#55
#55
Pilgrimshope said:
we’re not born of blood though ….rather water and spirit

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭

get baptized in water for remission of sins in his name and receive the spirit of promise

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

him shedding his blood doesn’t mean the things we’re taught to do don’t apply. Baptism is an important thing it’s part of the great commission and something every disciple did even Paul immediately after he received his sight back

“And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jews did it and so do Gentiles who received the spirit forst and then sre commanded to get baptized in water for remission of sins

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

…. Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the value of getting baptized in water for remission in his name is what he said it is remission of sins through one act of faith

There’s no reason for us to alter or deny the doctrine of baptism it’s basic christian doctrine and we do not because we believe what God said about doing it

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


We’re not buried with him because he died but because we believe he died for our sins and get baptized in his name so we can be recognized as having died
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wrong. we are bought with the blood of Christ. He shed His blood to redeem us from the sin we are born with.

13 Christ bought us with His blood and made us free from the Law. In that way, the Law could not punish us. Christ did this by carrying the load and by being punished instead of us. It is written, “Anyone who hangs on a cross is hated and punished.”
14 Because of the price Christ Jesus paid, the good things that came to Abraham might come to the people who are not Jews. And by putting our trust in Christ, we receive the Holy Spirit He has promised. Galatians 3

water did not buy us or save us. Christ bought us with His blood
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#56
#56
actually you wanted someone to consider that salvation has more than one aspect

KelbyofGod said:
Thanks for the like on the other page. My stance on baptism is similar to Wansvic's (just being transparent there) but not for the reason Rebel77 was suggesting.

May I ask a second honest question? <--that one was the first, lol :)

Are you open to consider that Salvation has more than one aspect?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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@oyster67
What I was saying is that each piece accomplishes something specific, and accomplishing one piece does not negate the need for the other piece.

now you are changing what you said...which you do often and relentlessly when you are corrected...you peddle backwards and suggest you were misunderstood. we actually understand you very well. we do not, however, agree with your posturing

as I have already stated, there is but one aspect to salvation and that is the shed blood of Christ on the cross

salvation is not a puzzle with different pieces to put together

what we do with Jesus sacrifice is to either accept it and thereby receive Him or we think we accept it and then begin to relay strange interpretations or we reject it outright

the one in the middle, is the most dangerous
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#57
Nov 27, 2018
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#57
SophieT said:
kindly show the scripture that will verify what you say here
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"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#58
May 24, 2014
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#58
SophieT said:
actually you wanted someone to consider that salvation has more than one aspect



@oyster67
What I was saying is that each piece accomplishes something specific, and accomplishing one piece does not negate the need for the other piece.

now you are changing what you said...which you do often and relentlessly when you are corrected...you peddle backwards and suggest you were misunderstood. we actually understand you very well. we do not, however, agree with your posturing

as I have already stated, there is but one aspect to salvation and that is the shed blood of Christ on the cross

salvation is not a puzzle with different pieces to put together

what we do with Jesus sacrifice is to either accept it and thereby receive Him or we think we accept it and then begin to relay strange interpretations or we reject it outright

the one in the middle, is the most dangerous
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I love you, but honestly, I can make neither heads nor tails of this post.

I appreciate constructive criticism...

but honestly, I can make neither heads nor tails of this post.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#59
May 24, 2014
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#59
OK, perhaps you were posting to someone else.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#60
#60
oyster67 said:
I love you, but honestly, I can make neither heads nor tails of this post.

I appreciate constructive criticism...

but honestly, I can make neither heads nor tails of this post.
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oh...first he states there are different steps to salvation and then when you point out the fallacy of that belief, he comes back with each 'piece' does something different

a flip flopping along as usually happens with him

was not critiquing you ;)
 
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