THE FOURTH MAN

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,209
6,548
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#1
I have been reading about the "fourth man in the fire," and wondered who it was? Was it Gabriel? Was it an incarnate Jesus? Searching for Articles on this, I discovered that there is a strong debate, and no exact conclusion. I will post "links" to a couple of these Articles should someone want to read them as well.

Daniel 3:19-27 – Who is the Fourth Man in the Fiery ...


(Dan. 3:25) Who is the fourth man in the fire? Was it ...

Daniel 3:19-27 – Who is the Fourth Man in the Fiery ...

After reading through these, I am inclined to believe it was the Angel Gabriel.

Love to read your thoughts about this.....
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,320
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#2
This is very interesting, and I am going to ponder this. Whoever it was was indestructible. Perhaps Daniel's 3 friends were getting their impurities burned off.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,246
4,960
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#3
I have been reading about the "fourth man in the fire," and wondered who it was? Was it Gabriel? Was it an incarnate Jesus? Searching for Articles on this, I discovered that there is a strong debate, and no exact conclusion. I will post "links" to a couple of these Articles should someone want to read them as well.

Daniel 3:19-27 – Who is the Fourth Man in the Fiery ...


(Dan. 3:25) Who is the fourth man in the fire? Was it ...

Daniel 3:19-27 – Who is the Fourth Man in the Fiery ...

After reading through these, I am inclined to believe it was the Angel Gabriel.

Love to read your thoughts about this.....
I don’t think we’re ever actually told who it is

“He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭3:25‬ ‭

I think that’s one of the few times “ the son of God “ is mentioned in the ot but I noticed there’s another figure in scriptire likened to the son of God

“For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I wonder what reference nebucadnezzar was using when he said he looked like the son of God ? Interesting post I’ll read and hope someone comes up with a better answer lol God bless
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,627
2,211
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#4
I have been reading about the "fourth man in the fire," and wondered who it was? Was it Gabriel? Was it an incarnate Jesus? Searching for Articles on this, I discovered that there is a strong debate, and no exact conclusion. I will post "links" to a couple of these Articles should someone want to read them as well.

Daniel 3:19-27 – Who is the Fourth Man in the Fiery ...


(Dan. 3:25) Who is the fourth man in the fire? Was it ...

Daniel 3:19-27 – Who is the Fourth Man in the Fiery ...

After reading through these, I am inclined to believe it was the Angel Gabriel.

Love to read your thoughts about this.....
Actually one of those links is a repeat.

But none are correct.

Gabriel is not the "angel/messenger" in question.
Gabriel is named during one particular job and one job only: Telling people about the coming Messiah. His name also means "God's Strength" or "Strong Man of God". He has been mistaken for an ordinary man as Zachariah did when told about John the Baptist's birth.

And Nebadchadnezzar had faith...it just was an ill formed faith. (Faith of a more acceptable form came later)

The expression "son of man" is the literal translation that was written which can be used to say son of gods in Aramaic. It's why Jesus used that expression often when talking about himself.

And a Theophany is as far as I'm willing to go with any guess. Was it Jesus? Kinda, but because it would be acceptable to say so because Jesus always saves and in his glorified form he would be unrecognizable. Also it is a form of God that is specifically designed to have a relationship with mankind.

Same as the "man" that Gideon spoke with about leading an army. Again another Theophany but again stated as "THE Angel of the LORD".

Jesus even talked about a Helper/Messenger coming after his ascention. So I really aren't exactly in the mood to go against what He says. Or have the writing skills to fully explain what was meant.

But if you ponder on what I have said... you might come to a reasonable conclusion.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,209
6,548
113
#5
Actually one of those links is a repeat.

But none are correct.

Gabriel is not the "angel/messenger" in question.
Gabriel is named during one particular job and one job only: Telling people about the coming Messiah. His name also means "God's Strength" or "Strong Man of God". He has been mistaken for an ordinary man as Zachariah did when told about John the Baptist's birth.

And Nebadchadnezzar had faith...it just was an ill formed faith. (Faith of a more acceptable form came later)

The expression "son of man" is the literal translation that was written which can be used to say son of gods in Aramaic. It's why Jesus used that expression often when talking about himself.

And a Theophany is as far as I'm willing to go with any guess. Was it Jesus? Kinda, but because it would be acceptable to say so because Jesus always saves and in his glorified form he would be unrecognizable. Also it is a form of God that is specifically designed to have a relationship with mankind.

Same as the "man" that Gideon spoke with about leading an army. Again another Theophany but again stated as "THE Angel of the LORD".

Jesus even talked about a Helper/Messenger coming after his ascention. So I really aren't exactly in the mood to go against what He says. Or have the writing skills to fully explain what was meant.

But if you ponder on what I have said... you might come to a reasonable conclusion.

found this:

Gabriel Appears to Daniel
Gabriel is first mentioned by name in Daniel 8:16. At this time, Daniel (of the lion’s den fame) was living in Babylon where the Jews were in exile. As the book of Daniel records, though Daniel had been taken into exile and the service of the Babylonian king, he stayed true to his faith and gained great favor, becoming a powerful man who was also loyal to God.
Daniel had many visions of the future. It was after one such vision that the angel Gabriel visited him. Gabriel was called upon to explain the meaning of the vision to Daniel, illuminating what was to come.
Gabriel returned at least once more, in Daniel 9. He was sent in response to Daniel’s prayer and came to give him “insight and understanding” (Daniel 9:22). In this encounter, Gabriel pointed ahead to the “Anointed One,” a name for the Messiah, who would be Jesus.

What Does the Bible Say about the Angel Gabriel?


and this:

The angel Gabriel is an angel of God who is mentioned by name three times in the Bible when he brought messages from God to Daniel, Zechariah, and Mary. If you’ve heard the Christmas story, chances are you recognize Gabriel as the name of the angel who brought Mary the news that she would become pregnant and give birth to Jesus.

How many times is Gabriel mentioned in the Bible?
The angel Gabriel is an angel of God who is mentioned by name three times in the Bible when he brought messages from God to Daniel, Zechariah, and Mary. Alyssa Roat Contributing Writer 2019 9 Dec
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,627
2,211
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#6
found this:

Gabriel Appears to Daniel
Gabriel is first mentioned by name in Daniel 8:16. At this time, Daniel (of the lion’s den fame) was living in Babylon where the Jews were in exile. As the book of Daniel records, though Daniel had been taken into exile and the service of the Babylonian king, he stayed true to his faith and gained great favor, becoming a powerful man who was also loyal to God.
Daniel had many visions of the future. It was after one such vision that the angel Gabriel visited him. Gabriel was called upon to explain the meaning of the vision to Daniel, illuminating what was to come.
Gabriel returned at least once more, in Daniel 9. He was sent in response to Daniel’s prayer and came to give him “insight and understanding” (Daniel 9:22). In this encounter, Gabriel pointed ahead to the “Anointed One,” a name for the Messiah, who would be Jesus.

What Does the Bible Say about the Angel Gabriel?


and this:

The angel Gabriel is an angel of God who is mentioned by name three times in the Bible when he brought messages from God to Daniel, Zechariah, and Mary. If you’ve heard the Christmas story, chances are you recognize Gabriel as the name of the angel who brought Mary the news that she would become pregnant and give birth to Jesus.

How many times is Gabriel mentioned in the Bible?
The angel Gabriel is an angel of God who is mentioned by name three times in the Bible when he brought messages from God to Daniel, Zechariah, and Mary. Alyssa Roat Contributing Writer 2019 9 Dec
I like it when professional writers agree with me. :ROFL:
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#7
I don’t think we’re ever actually told who it is

“He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭3:25‬ ‭

I think that’s one of the few times “ the son of God “ is mentioned in the ot but I noticed there’s another figure in scriptire likened to the son of God

“For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I wonder what reference nebucadnezzar was using when he said he looked like the son of God ? Interesting post I’ll read and hope someone comes up with a better answer lol God bless
Yes the phrase son of God is used elsewhere but here note the word the in the sentence the son of God as in Jesus Christ the true son of God.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,265
5,624
113
#8
I've always understood the man in the fire to be a Christophany. It seems obvious.
I can see how it might be a debate within Talmudic Judaism but was totally unaware
there was any serious debate about it among Christians.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
612
113
70
Alabama
#10
I have been reading about the "fourth man in the fire," and wondered who it was? Was it Gabriel? Was it an incarnate Jesus? Searching for Articles on this, I discovered that there is a strong debate, and no exact conclusion. I will post "links" to a couple of these Articles should someone want to read them as well.

Daniel 3:19-27 – Who is the Fourth Man in the Fiery ...


(Dan. 3:25) Who is the fourth man in the fire? Was it ...

Daniel 3:19-27 – Who is the Fourth Man in the Fiery ...

After reading through these, I am inclined to believe it was the Angel Gabriel.

Love to read your thoughts about this.....
When Nebuchadnezzar saw the fourth man in the furnace, he made a rather interesting statement, “…and the form of the fourth is like the son of the gods.” NOT “like the Son of God,” as it is rendered in many translations.

I cannot help but wonder how Nebuchadnezzar knew what a son of the gods would look like. I think the idea is simply that Nebuchadnezzar saw an angelic figure, a being he immediately recognized as being different than the others in appearance. Whether or not this was an angel or a theophonic manifestation is unclear and a matter of some disagreement among scholars. What is clear from the language is that Nebuchadnezzar did not recognize this fourth figure as the third member of the Triadic Unity. It is suggested by Dr. Fuller that Nebuchadnezzar was identifying the fourth person as the son of the Babylonian fire god Iz-bar – dā-mêh lə-ḇar- ’ĕ-lā-hîn.

From the Pulpit Commentary, “The suggestion of Dr. Fuller [is], that here in bar we have not the word for "son," but rather a truncated form of [the Babylonian] god of fire, Iz-bar….”

While I find this an intriguing possibility, I think we must recognize the fact that when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego are released from the furnace, Nebuchadnezzar did not thank his god Iz-bar for their deliverance. Rather, he thanked the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego “who sent His angel and delivered His servants who trusted in Him, and they have frustrated the king’s word, and yielded their bodies, that they should not serve nor worship any god except their own God! Therefore, I make a decree that any people, nation, or language which speaks anything amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made an ash heap; because there is no other God who can deliver like this.’”

“Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego in the province of Babylon.”

This reveals a huge difference between Nebuchadnezzar and Pharaoh. It also reveals a big difference between Nebuchadnezzar and the Pharisees of Jesus' day. Nebuchadnezzar was humble enough to acknowledge the reality, presence, and power of God when faced with such a miraculous demonstration. Pharaoh, on the other hand, refused to acknowledge God no matter what miracles he witnessed. The Pharisees refused to believe even after seeing Jesus raise someone from the dead.

The conversion of Nebuchadnezzar is an intriguing one. Earlier, in chapter 2, Nebuchadnezzar was forced to acknowledge that Daniel’s God is superior to other gods in wisdom and knowledge. Now, he is forced to acknowledge the power of the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego; and this was a God who was not represented by some image he could see or touch.

It is interesting that although Nebuchadnezzar decreed no one should speak a word against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, he does not decree a moratorium on idolatry. What he did accomplish in this decree was to ensure Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego's freedom to worship God without fear of reprisal from anyone. This protected them from any further persecution. More than that, he protected the integrity of the name of God, and this was a big deal. He intended to have anyone killed who dared to speak a word against the true God. He may not understand the God of the Israelites, but he will not have anyone speak against such a God who is powerful enough to deliver condemned men out of his hands. It will not be until chapter four however, that Nebuchadnezzar will come to acknowledge God as the only true and living God. At that point, Nebuchadnezzar seems to have been forever cured of his idolatry.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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#11
I wonder what reference nebucadnezzar was using when he said he looked like the son of God ?
i've often wondered how Nebuchadnezzar knew what 'a son of God' looked like, so that he was able to make the comparison


I cannot help but wonder how Nebuchadnezzar knew what a son of the gods would look like.
ah and i am not the only one to wonder this :)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,246
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#12
i've often wondered how Nebuchadnezzar knew what 'a son of God' looked like, so that he was able to make the comparison


Yes I was also wondering where he came up with that reference. Especially being king of Babylon. Where as one might expect Jacob to Make such a comparison or even Abraham but nebucadnezzar it’s mystery in my head also

ah and i am not the only one to wonder this :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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#13
Yes I was also wondering where he came up with that reference. Especially being king of Babylon. Where as one might expect Jacob to Make such a comparison or even Abraham but nebucadnezzar it’s mystery in my head also
the king of Babylon is not a man to be taken lightly :unsure:

Nebuchadnezzar in particular, God called him 'My servant' several times before the events recorded in Daniel..
((Jeremiah 27:6, Jeremiah 43:10, Ezekiel 29:18–20))
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#14
Yes the phrase son of God is used elsewhere but here note the word the in the sentence the son of God as in Jesus Christ the true son of God.
I’m not following your question dear brother . It’s a mystery to me I just found it interesting in that the reference to melchezidek relates him to being made like the son of God , and nebucadnezzar notes the one like the son of God

“He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭3:25‬ ‭

And then when discussing the greatness of melchezidek soecifically his eternal
Nature without beginning or end

“Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think obviously the references are pointing to two different attributes one is referencing the appearance of the fourth man , the other referencing his eternal Nature I just was trying to recall
Any other times someone was likened to the son of God.

I honestly don’t know who was in the flames with them I do know they came out not even smelling of smoke and tbier bonds were loosed while in the fire so what I gather is they stood on thoer faith and God delivered them from certain Demise in a fiery furnace and Jesus does the same thing saving us from the fiery furnace ahead for us

“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know The son of God can deliver us from that furnace so I surely look at it as a prophetic figure of the gospel as I do the whole of the Old Testament

I don’t know if it was an angel or God himself it was just interesting that nebucadnezzar said he had the appearance of the son of God how would
He know ?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,246
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#15
the king of Babylon is not a man to be taken lightly :unsure:

Nebuchadnezzar in particular, God called him 'My servant' several times before the events recorded in Daniel..
((Jeremiah 27:6, Jeremiah 43:10, Ezekiel 29:18–20))
yes I’m aware he also restored him after he was sent into the field to live as a beast ect

he ruled the world for a time and is the first head of The beast in revelation I wasn’t taking anything lightly I was and am wondering what his reference meant was just gonna read some other folks takes because I don’t know who it was or where the reference came from just found it interesting
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
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#16
I’m not following your question dear brother . It’s a mystery to me I just found it interesting in that the reference to melchezidek relates him to being made like the son of God , and nebucadnezzar notes the one like the son of God

“He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭3:25‬ ‭

And then when discussing the greatness of melchezidek soecifically his eternal
Nature without beginning or end

“Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think obviously the references are pointing to two different attributes one is referencing the appearance of the fourth man , the other referencing his eternal Nature I just was trying to recall
Any other times someone was likened to the son of God.

I honestly don’t know who was in the flames with them I do know they came out not even smelling of smoke and tbier bonds were loosed while in the fire so what I gather is they stood on thoer faith and God delivered them from certain Demise in a fiery furnace and Jesus does the same thing saving us from the fiery furnace ahead for us

“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know The son of God can deliver us from that furnace so I surely look at it as a prophetic figure of the gospel as I do the whole of the Old Testament

I don’t know if it was an angel or God himself it was just interesting that nebucadnezzar said he had the appearance of the son of God how would
He know ?
That is a good question how did he know? I suppose he makes himself known somehow, but I said what I did because the wording had the appearance of like the son of God is a pretty good idea that it is refering the the son of God himself not a mere angel, i couldn't say where else it is used to reference an angel except a couple times but usually has a son of God instead of the son of God
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,246
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#17
That is a good question how did he know? I suppose he makes himself known somehow, but I said what I did because the wording had the appearance of like the son of God is a pretty good idea that it is refering the the son of God himself not a mere angel, i couldn't say where else it is used to reference an angel except a couple times but usually has a son of God instead of the son of God
yes I understood and wasn’t disparaging your comment I just was trying to explain what I was saying

yes it’s a mystery but I like what you said there that he makes himself known I think that’s a good answer God bless dear brother
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,481
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#18
After reading through these, I am inclined to believe it was the Angel Gabriel.
The fourth man was the pre-incarnate Christ. This was disclosed to none other than Nebuchadnezzar who said: Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. (Dan 9:25) He did not say "like a son of God" but "like the Son of God".

The Hebrew -- dameh lebar elahin -- says the same thing:
עָנֵ֣ה וְאָמַ֗ר הָֽא־אֲנָ֨ה חָזֵ֜ה גֻּבְרִ֣ין אַרְבְּעָ֗ה שְׁרַ֙יִן֙ מַהְלְכִ֣ין בְּגֹֽוא־נוּרָ֔א וַחֲבָ֖ל לָא־אִיתַ֣י בְּהֹ֑ון וְרֵוֵהּ֙ דִּ֣י [רְבִיעָיָא כ] (רְֽבִיעָאָ֔ה ק) דָּמֵ֖ה לְבַר־ אֱלָהִֽין׃
 
Dec 29, 2021
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#19
From the Tanakh : The Hebrew claims Nebuchadnezzar used the term "Angel"

25 He called out and said, "Behold, I see four free men walking in the midst of the fire, and there is no wound upon them, and the form of the fourth one is like [that of] an angel."
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,209
6,548
113
#20
I cannot help but wonder how Nebuchadnezzar knew what a son of the gods would look like. I think the idea is simply that Nebuchadnezzar saw an angelic figure, a being he immediately recognized as being different than the others in appearance. Whether or not this was an angel or a theophonic manifestation is unclear and a matter of some disagreement among scholars. What is clear from the language is that Nebuchadnezzar did not recognize this fourth figure as the third member of the Triadic Unity. It is suggested by Dr. Fuller that Nebuchadnezzar was identifying the fourth person as the son of the Babylonian fire god Iz-bar – dā-mêh lə-ḇar- ’ĕ-lā-hîn.
I agree and that is why I believe it was an angel, possibly Gabriel