The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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Marilyn

Marilyn

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ewq1938 said:
None of that affects the fact that the body of Christ began with the 12 disciples. That is also when the church and the bride began.
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Then why did Jesus say to the 12 disciples that they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel? (Matt. 19: 28, Rev. 21: 14)

And why did Jesus tell Paul that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not revealed in previous times? (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)
 
Marilyn

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ewq1938 said:
Read it more closely:

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.


"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:


"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."


He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us! That's the opposite of the false pre-trib teaching!
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`Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool.` (Isa. 66: 1)
 
ewq1938

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Marilyn said:
Then why did Jesus say to the 12 disciples that they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel? (Matt. 19: 28, Rev. 21: 14)
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Because they shall.


And why did Jesus tell Paul that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not revealed in previous times? (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)
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Jesus said no such thing in those verses.
 
Marilyn

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ewq1938 said:
Because they shall.

Jesus said no such thing in those verses.
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Yes the 12 disciples will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel from the New Jerusalem. (Matt. 19: 28, Rev. 21: 14)

And Jesus the Head of His body by His Holy Spirit told the Apostle Paul the mystery -

`...which in other ages WAS NOT KNOWN TO THE SONS OF MEN, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His Holy apostles and prophets; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the SAME BODY, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel...` (Eph. 3: 5 & 6)
 
ewq1938

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Marilyn said:
Yes the 12 disciples will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel from the New Jerusalem. (Matt. 19: 28, Rev. 21: 14)

And Jesus the Head of His body by His Holy Spirit told the Apostle Paul the mystery -

`...which in other ages WAS NOT KNOWN TO THE SONS OF MEN, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His Holy apostles and prophets; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the SAME BODY, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel...` (Eph. 3: 5 & 6)
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You said, "why did Jesus tell Paul that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not revealed in previous times? (Eph. 3: 1 - 7) "



Jesus said no such thing in those verses.
 
Marilyn

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ewq1938 said:
You said, "why did Jesus tell Paul that the revelation of the Body of Christ was not revealed in previous times? (Eph. 3: 1 - 7) "


Jesus said no such thing in those verses.
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So what do you think Jesus was saying in those verses?
 
ewq1938

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Marilyn said:
So what do you think Jesus was saying in those verses?
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Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


What was not known before this letter was that gentiles would join the body. It's not saying people before this letter didn't know of that body. The Apostles and prophets did receive this knowledge and that would apply as early as the 12 disciples.
 
Absolutely

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ewq1938 said:
None of that affects the fact that the body of Christ began with the 12 disciples. That is also when the church and the bride began.
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I can see that partially.
Because Jesus demonstrated on the sabbath that He had the power to forgive sin.
 
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ewq1938 said:
Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


What was not known before this letter was that gentiles would join the body. It's not saying people before this letter didn't know of that body. The Apostles and prophets did receive this knowledge and that would apply as early as the 12 disciples.
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Good find.
Ironic that hyper Paulines would not know the pauline sections.
Great post.
 
Absolutely

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Marilyn said:
Yes the 12 disciples will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel from the New Jerusalem. (Matt. 19: 28, Rev. 21: 14)

And Jesus the Head of His body by His Holy Spirit told the Apostle Paul the mystery -

`...which in other ages WAS NOT KNOWN TO THE SONS OF MEN, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His Holy apostles and prophets; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the SAME BODY, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel...` (Eph. 3: 5 & 6)
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Do hyper paulines ever address the fact that Peter received the revelation before Paul?
 
CS1

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Absolutely said:
Do hyper paulines ever address the fact that Peter received the revelation before Paul?
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does everyone remember Paul said Peter's words were Scripture? And it was the Lord himself who came to Peter in Acts about the gentiles? all scripture including Peters's words given to him by the HS is the word of God because they were from God.
 
Marilyn

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Absolutely said:
Do hyper paulines ever address the fact that Peter received the revelation before Paul?
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Are you referring to when the Holy Spirit had to get Peter to go to the Gentiles? Remember Peter actually said `no,` for he thought they were unclean. So when Peter did go to the house of Cornelius we see that Peter realises that God has given them the Holy Spirit too and Peter says, `He is Lord of all.` (Acts 10: 34)

However Peter does not receive the revelation that the believing Jews and Gentiles are brought together into ONE BODY!
 
Marilyn

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ewq1938 said:
Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


What was not known before this letter was that gentiles would join the body. It's not saying people before this letter didn't know of that body. The Apostles and prophets did receive this knowledge and that would apply as early as the 12 disciples.
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Hi ewq,

Good to see you quote those scriptures, however you missed emphasising this part ` AND OF THE SAME BODY.`

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

That is the part that Peter didn`t understand for it was not given to him.
 
Marilyn

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Absolutely said:
Good find.
Ironic that hyper Paulines would not know the pauline sections.
Great post.
Click to expand...
Mmmm what about the part that was missed out - `AND OF THE SAME BODY.` That was the revelation the Holy Spirit gave to the Apostle Paul.

Now why are you concerned with this or that person when it is the HOLY SPIRIT who is revealing more of the LORD AND HIS PURPOSES.
 
ewq1938

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Marilyn said:
Hi ewq,

Good to see you quote those scriptures, however you missed emphasising this part ` AND OF THE SAME BODY.`

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

That is the part that Peter didn`t understand for it was not given to him.
Click to expand...

He understood it just fine. I also didn't miss anything since I mentioned the body in my post. Apparently YOU missed that I did address it.
 
Marilyn

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ewq1938 said:
He understood it just fine. I also didn't miss anything since I mentioned the body in my post. Apparently YOU missed that I did address it.
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However you say the other disciples knew of the revelation of the Body of Christ. This is not true.

1. Why did Peter have difficulty going to Cornelius` house if he knew that God now made them in the Body?

2. Why did Peter try to get the Gentile believers to act like Jews, if he knew they were in the Body of Christ?

3. Why has the Lord made Peter, (& the 11 others) rulers over Israel and not the Body of Christ?
 
ewq1938

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Marilyn said:
However you say the other disciples knew of the revelation of the Body of Christ. This is not true.
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Scripture says it is true.

1. Why did Peter have difficulty going to Cornelius` house if he knew that God now made them in the Body?

2. Why did Peter try to get the Gentile believers to act like Jews, if he knew they were in the Body of Christ?
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Hard to let go of lifelong beliefs I guess.



3. Why has the Lord made Peter, (& the 11 others) rulers over Israel and not the Body of Christ?
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The body of Christ will be given rule over the nations. God wanted the 12 to judge the tribes of Israel.
 
Marilyn

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ewq1938 said:
Hard to let go of lifelong beliefs I guess.
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Yes ewq, it is hard to let go of lifelong beliefs. However when the Holy Spirit brings revelation then that is different. And Peter did receive revelation by the Holy Spirit.

1. Revelation of who Jesus is.
`You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.` (Matt. 16: 16 & 17)

2. Revelation that Jesus is Lord of all, (Jews and Gentiles)
`Jesus Christ - He is Lord of all.` (Acts 10: 36)

However Peter did not receive the revelation of the Body of Christ.

Note that when Peter returned to talk to the other apostles they contended with him for going up to the circumcision and eating with them. (Acts 11: 3) Peter said `Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.` (Acts 11: 18)

However we see that they did not know of the further revelation of the Body of Christ, for it had not yet been revealed.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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Marilyn said:
However Peter did not receive the revelation of the Body of Christ.
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Scripture said he did:

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

So in previous ages something was not made known but in Paul's age it was revealed to the Apostles and prophets. Peter is one of those Apostles and prophets of that current age.


Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

And this what was not known in the past ages, that the gentiles would be joining body. The body, which is composed of believers, here is not being revealed. It's who is going to be joining that body that is new information of that current age.
 
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