Angel? Prophet? Both?

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ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#1
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Here an angel seems to claim to be one of the OT prophets. Thoughts?
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
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#2
Is this strange? If a prophet in the Old Testament resurrects and becomes an angel, then he goes beyond the concept of time.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#3
John thought he was a angel and was told otherwise.
Question is why would john worship a angel?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,929
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#5
John thought he was a angel and was told otherwise.
He was an angel. It was actually one of the 7 vial angels:

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.


So the angel called himself an angel that was sent to show these things, and so when John calls him an angel, he is correct.


Let's go back to the 7 vial angels:

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
 
Jan 5, 2022
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"A higher plane," hehe
www.youtube.com
#6
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

The angel also mentions that he is the fellowservant of those who keep the sayings of this book, or in other words, ordinary Christians. Very interesting.

There are several ways to look at this, and then I guess we can evaluate those possibilities with other Scriptures. First would be that the angel is simply saying, "I am a created servant of God just like the prophets and saints are." In this view, he is simply saying God made him but he is not necessarily identifying directly as one of the prophets or saints.

Another view is that he actually WAS one of the prophets or saints. This is an interesting idea because the term "angel" simply means "messenger" in the Koine Greek and doesn't necessarily (to my knowledge) denote what we think of as "angels" - spiritual beings created to serve God which are not human. Is this a prophet who has been given a role AS A MESSENGER ("angel") after his death? I've always been told, and it makes sense, that we saints will have work to do in Paradise; it won't all be harps and cloud-sitting.

Why was John tempted to worship? If this angel was an angelic being, then perhaps because his appearance was bright or alien. If he was a resurrected saint, then perhaps it was because he was shining or bright as Christ was during the Transfiguration or how the saints will one day be when clothed in white raiment.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,260
6,546
113
#7
John thought he was a angel and was told otherwise.
Question is why would john worship a angel?
With all due respect, it was an Angel who brught the message*s( to John. The angel said tat John should not worship him for he too was a servant of the Most High God.
Any messenger from God Yahweh, whho is not in the flesh but in the spirit is an angel.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,288
176
63
#8
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Here an angel seems to claim to be one of the OT prophets. Thoughts?
I think you are conflating this a wee bit. While it could be Enoch, or Moses, or Elijah, I think its an Angel which means of course a Messenger of God.

The key here is the last two words, WORSHIP God, that is wat the Bible (OVERALL) teaches us, and what the problem in this whole world is today (so simple but true) because f every man and woman worshiped God in truth there would be no murders, no greed, no hate etc.

So, those last two words is basically the Angel saying , NO, do not worship me, I am a fellow servant, a Prophet (which the root word simply means a foreteller), so he's a Messenger, who is foretelling John what is to come in these visions and in speaking unto John, he's a "FELLOW BROTHER" in that just like us, these Angels are a Created Being, only God is eternal, a la the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So, in reality, this Messenger/Angel is telling John, NO, Do not get down and worship me, I am a fellow "Created Brother" of yours, whose job it is to relay these things that are going to EVENTUALLY come to pass, ad just like you, I keep the saying in this book, Worship ONLY God !!

He's basically saying NO, that's a big boo boo, worship only God. That is what us messenger Angels do in Heaven.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,929
1,258
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#9
I think you are conflating this a wee bit. While it could be Enoch, or Moses, or Elijah, I think its an Angel which means of course a Messenger of God.

The key here is the last two words, WORSHIP God, that is wat the Bible (OVERALL) teaches us, and what the problem in this whole world is today (so simple but true) because f every man and woman worshiped God in truth there would be no murders, no greed, no hate etc.

So, those last two words is basically the Angel saying , NO, do not worship me, I am a fellow servant, a Prophet (which the root word simply means a foreteller), so he's a Messenger, who is foretelling John what is to come in these visions and in speaking unto John, he's a "FELLOW BROTHER" in that just like us, these Angels are a Created Being, only God is eternal, a la the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So, in reality, this Messenger/Angel is telling John, NO, Do not get down and worship me, I am a fellow "Created Brother" of yours, whose job it is to relay these things that are going to EVENTUALLY come to pass, ad just like you, I keep the saying in this book, Worship ONLY God !!

He's basically saying NO, that's a big boo boo, worship only God. That is what us messenger Angels do in Heaven.

"I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets"

The angel, one of the 7 angels that poured the vials of wrath literally said he is "of thy brethren the prophets". John is a prophet and so are many of 12 disciples but when I think of "prophets" I think of the OT prophets also.

How is he "of" the prophets and not one of the prophets? I'm not sure the whole "we are all created by God" argument is satisfying enough.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#10
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Here an angel seems to claim to be one of the OT prophets. Thoughts?
Well, he's just not...

Try reading it again!
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#11
With all due respect, it was an Angel who brught the message*s( to John. The angel said tat John should not worship him for he too was a servant of the Most High God.
Any messenger from God Yahweh, whho is not in the flesh but in the spirit is an angel.
Oh I agree but still john fell down to worship the messenger. Why would he do that?
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#12
He was an angel. It was actually one of the 7 vial angels:

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.


So the angel called himself an angel that was sent to show these things, and so when John calls him an angel, he is correct.

How did one of the seven become the one that john spoke to as the prophet? Don't have my bible handy to follow.


Let's go back to the 7 vial angels:

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,260
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#13
Oh I agree but still john fell down to worship the messenger. Why would he do that?
Did not Daniel do the same? I suppose both Daniel and John were so impressed by the messengers that they thought they were God, Himself. All I know is by faith I believe the writings but I by no means am able to interpret them fully.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#14
Maybe out of respect
We are to worship God and him only saint. I see where your coming from but john is a well seasoned christian so the question remains.😉
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#15
Did not Daniel do the same? I suppose both Daniel and John were so impressed by the messengers that they thought they were God, Himself. All I know is by faith I believe the writings but I by no means am able to interpret them fully.
You and I both lol. I think that john is being caught by surprise and just overwhelmed with all that he is shown.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,600
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#16
Did not Daniel do the same? I suppose both Daniel and John were so impressed by the messengers that they thought they were God, Himself. All I know is by faith I believe the writings but I by no means am able to interpret them fully.
(y)
I think that's the long and short of it.

Like when Daniel asks "When will all this take place?" I'd probably do the same.

In full disclosure, when seeing the heavens unfold before me I'd just be glad not to wet myself.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,751
2,247
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#17
I think two things...

One,
John had a case of mistaken identity as to who he was talking to.

Two,
Most of the modern theology concerning angels is incorrect and not in keeping with what things truly are.

The identity of that prophet is unknown at this time. And even though John himself is a prophet, and Jesus' favorite disciple, why is a prophet used to convey a message?

That should be the question.

Just saying...
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
#18
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Here an angel seems to claim to be one of the OT prophets. Thoughts?
John makes this mistake twice, in 19:10 and 22:8.

He did this after having seen Christ and fell at His feet as dead.

No doubt the two were in like appearance to Christ.

I believe they are exactly what they claim to be "fellow servants" who were men and now are in their glorified bodies, illuminated in God's glory.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#19
John makes this mistake twice, in 19:10 and 22:8.

He did this after having seen Christ and fell at His feet as dead.

No doubt the two were in like appearance to Christ.

I believe they are exactly what they claim to be "fellow servants" who were men and now are in their glorified bodies, illuminated in God's glory.
Did you ever consider that the writings of john may have been in short hand. He is writing what he sees but then if we realize how over whelming this might of been for anyone of us.
He continually was told hey John write these things down. Alot going on .
Here he is in prison one moment then in heaven the next. We should explore the surroundings of the times and what was happening . It would give us a better perspective on what was written and why.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,288
176
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#20
Daniel didn't know what God looked like, he saw Jesus (Man in Linen) so, it would be hard for him to tell the difference between Jesus and the Angel if both appeared to look like common man with a glorious body.

The word Prophet simply means FORETELLER when looking to the Greek root word. Well, what did God send this Angel to do? Foretell the future unto John. So, he was a fellow foreteller of future events, we far to often pigeonhole the way vocabulary is interpreted. For instance, those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT come out of the 70th week tribulation period according to Jesus' own words and Rev. 20:4 which shows all of the Martyrs are Judged AFTER Jesus' Second Coming, yet all people can see is the Human (who was raptured Pre Trib) Elder explaining unto John that these came out of the Great Tribulation, and BOOM, they go to what their MIND has been trained to understand that the 70th week can be the ONLY Tribulation ever, even thought these shown CAN NOT have come out of this 70th week period of troubles unless Jesus lied and Rev. 20:4 is a lie, but never the less, when you explain its he Pre Trib Church that was raptured out of the Church Age "TROUBLES" , people are aghast, even though in John 16:33 Jesus said we would have continual TROUBLES on this earth, even though millions of Christians were killed during this 2000 some odd year period of TROUBLES which Jesus said we would continually have on this earth, they can not grasp that the Church Age Troubles which lasted 2000 some odd years can be spoken of as a Greater Period of TIME than the 70th week troubles as in 2000>7.

NOTICE: In Rev. 7:13-17 it is never said that these were all Martyrs, not once, because the Raptured Church are 99 percent not Martyrs, of course, even though over the 2000 some odd years many, man, many were martyrs. But all people can see is GREAT TRIBULATION, and it has to be the 70th week, but it is not.