Galatians Discussion

The law defines sin for us (1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20).

Therefore, if we violate the law, we are sinning; whether we are in Christ or out of Christ.

If you are breaker of the law therefore, you are a sinner.

Do I need to point out that according to scripture, those who are born again are not sinners in the sense of being those who commit sin (1 John 3:5-9)?

While we are sinners in the sense that we all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15, Romans 7:18).

If you do not sacrifice your sin offering at the entrance to the temple, you are violating the law. If you do not appear at the temple for the day of atonement, you are violating the law. If you do not stone your neighbours who are committing adultery, you are violating the law. If you collect sticks on the Sabbath, you are violating the law.

Do I need to point out that Christians are not under the law?

Hi @Dino246,

From the Father's perspective, He looks down on us and sees the blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ; so yes, we are not under the law, as concerning condemnation. Do I need to point out to you that, as a result of this, sin shall not have dominion over us (Romans 6:14)? And sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

From the perspective of the Holy Ghost, whose job it is to sanctify the believer, and whose job it is to convict the unbeliever of sin and righteousness and judgment, the Holy Ghost deals with us according to our sins. He sees them; and He is working to eradicate them from our behaviour.

He does this by pinpointing our sins to us and showing us that they are there; so that we can bring them before the Father in confession and be forgiven (1 John 1:7-9).

Now, the Holy Ghost pinpoints our sins utilizing the law. For by the law is the knowledge of sin; and the law defines sin (Romans 3:20, 7:7, 1 John 3:4).


The temple sacrifices are fulfilled in the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.

The other things are a part of the 613 commandments that are to be kept by anyone who seeks to be justified by the law; if they do not keep them perfectly from conception into eternity, they are utterly condemned (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).

However, for the believer, who is not under the law, yet the ten commandments will be kept by him since the love of God is shed abroad in his heart and that love is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within him (see post #239 (https://christianchat.com/threads/galatians-discussion.203410/post-4748314)).

If the 613 in any way are a fulfillment of the love of God in a believer's life, they will also be kept by him.

But the believer, being not under the law, is not condemned if he does not keep the 613, and he is also not condemned if he does not keep the ten.

Nevertheless I would say that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart of every believer; and therefore if anyone is genuinely born again, he will keep the ten (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).

Not because he has to in order to be saved; but because salvation = the love of God shed abroad in his heart, and therefore keeping the ten will be the supernatural outcropping of being saved for the one who is saved. Since keeping the ten is the result of love according to scripture (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).

Christ said that if you love me you will obey me, and here you are saying if you obey once you are under a curse. God would not put you under a curse for the repentance he asks for. Christ took care of that we sin even when we try not to sin. Christ forgives based on repentance, not perfection. We have to truly WANT and try to not sin.

Christ gave us forgiveness of sins we are under grace and we obey. Titus explains what grace is: Titus 2: 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,

"The law" is a tool, only. It can be used in many different ways, as any tool can be used. You do not blame the tool for the use that is made of it. If fact, this tool can take many different forms. It can be as Moses gave it, and it changed its form when Christ formed it. In the hands of Moses it was made of steel and inflexible. In the hands of Christ it was a part of our hearts and consisted only of love.

I never said this.

But Moses and Paul and Jamessaid if you disobey once, you are under a curse.

Talk to them

it’s everything Christ said in the gospel to his disciples the core is the sermon on the Mount but can you acknolwedge the contrary nature of what Moses said and what Christ said it’s opposite at many points Christ didn’t redefine Moses law Moses law is everything Moses said to Israel before the Holy Ghost was given to mankind

This is Moses law no one can ever change even a word

“And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s Moses law ehatever is written on the book of the law every command he gave isreal. That’s what we call the Old Testament law it’s The law that governed the Old Testament unspiritual people.

Christians have this law

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s no way to make Moses law the same as what Jesus preached it’s the new covenant law for people that receive the spirit not for those without the spirit Christs word is all Christians need to believe and live by they are complete in Christ and his doctrine

his doctrine is simply what he taught for about three years in Israel it’s the gospel of the kingdom. He taught about it all through the gospel accounts whatever he said is his doctrine Moses law given to Israel has no part it’s contrary and for a contrary purpose

Moses said this

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

(Jesus said this contrary thing )
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He isn’t redefining it he’s giving us the truth of God like he was sent into the world to do

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are two covenants in scripture regarding law. Not one redefined as another that’s just complicating it there’s one covenant that was broken and another covenant that was promised each has a law and lawgiver each has a mediator Moses gave the old law Christ gave the truth

Yes because it was for the purpose of making us understand our sin and guilt so we would accept the savior when he came and listen to him only people who know they are sinners would accept someone dying for thier sins and calling them to repentance.

[[/QUOTE]

“If you are a new Covenant believer it does.

this is written on your heart ?

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you want the knowledge of sin written on your heart ? So then this is a New Testament believers identity ?

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s strange that you don’t understand that this is what’s written on the heart

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and think this is

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s odd that you won’t accept the deliverance from it

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s odd that you can’t accept this part

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”

‭‭John‬ ‭4:23-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.”

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:20-21‬ ‭


It’s odd you would want this on your heart

“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:56‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s odd you can’t accept this law of Christ that was always promised

Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s odd you can’t accept this Moses said it Jesus said it Peter said it paul said it James said it Stephen said it …..

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”

‭‭John‬ ‭5:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”

‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. …Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”

‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and odd you can’t accept the New Testament that we’re told to believe is what’s meant to be written on your heart. It’s odd you can’t see what’s meant for the heart

“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But you know it’s your choice like I said I already knew my sin and guilt long ago d moved into repentance the law of Moses has no part in me I belong to Jesus and the gospel not moses and the law that never helped anyone they all were condemned and died i chose this word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

which one you gonna choose ?

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is an example of the misunderstanding that partial truths bring. The whole truth is that sin (disobedience) brings death. Death can only be prevented through faith in Christ, with that faith, through Christ, it has no power to kill. And for "the end of the story", we are born in sin so perfect obedience is impossible for us. God took care of our death through sin, and in the same way God took care of our inability to be perfect. We are told to repent of sin, and it is counted as righteousness for we have faith in Christ.

Jesus re-defined the law of Moses in the Sermon on the Mount so that it applies to the heart and not just outward obedience.

Concerning this,

Eye for an aey and tooth for a tooth is concerning justice in the law of Israel; turning the other cheek, on the other hand, has to do with the law of love as it is written on the hearts of believers.

One has to do with justice meted out by the government; which some mistook as an excuse to be able to take revenge personally. However, we are not to take revenge personally, or be vigilantes; but we are to let the government mete out that type of justice.

🙂so redefining is saying the opposite ?

he took one away and established the new. This is a group with Moses law on their heart

moses commanded this

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they understood it and reacted because they believed in Moses law it was what shaped their heart

“They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:4-6‬ ‭

Jesus showed them the truth of what the old law was for And gave them the new regarding remission of sins and repentance

“So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:7, 9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you want to call that redefining the law lol I guess but he stopped them from doing Moses commanded
and turned the law on them to show them they were just like her they were sinners too

he then forgave her be instructed repentance

at this point it seems like a play on words when it’s really clear we aren’t under Moses law we are born of and live in the gospel. Moses isn’t Jesus not even close and his word is. Ot jesus word not even close

redefine lol that’s a good one. He was correcting what they were told
By Moses because they were blinded by it . As many are today apparently

As concerning condemnation, we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

As concerning obedience, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21). For it is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

Because the love of the Lord is shed abroad in my heart (Romans 5:5), I am not going to:

* Commit adultery with my neighbor's wife

* Kill my neighbor

* Steal from my neighbor

* Bear false witness against my neighbor

* Covet my neighbor's belongings

* Or, violate any other commandment concerning my neighbor.

(Romans 13:8-10)

(1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).

They (and Jesus) didn't go against the law of Moses by not stoning her; for the law of Moses required that every word be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses if anyone was going to be put to death.

He only misunderstanding is from you

Moses said cursed is the one who does not obey every word

Paul said cursed is the one who does not obey every word

James said if we keep the whole law yet stumble in one point (one sin) we are guilty of all

Those are absolute truths.

You need to stop watering down the word.

So I guess everyone is cursed!

Because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

But if anyone can be blessed (such as in James 1:25) I think that it is because they are not attempting to be justified by the law.

YOU are watering down the word! GOD (Christ is God) said sin kills us. Christ said obey me. Christ said repent of sin. James said he will show us his belief by his work. Paul said we don't make void the law through faith, but establish the law through faith.

I could go on and on with what you are ignoring because it is unforgiven sin that causes our death. Scripture consists of many verses, ALL of them are of God and truth.

“I could go on and on with what you are ignoring” you seem to do that a lot can you address ANY of this

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”

‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10KJV‬‬

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. But before faith came, we were kept under the law,

shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19, 23-24KJV‬‬

“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”

‭‭John‬ ‭4:23-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:56‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”

‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”

‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You're speculating. The text clearly states that she was caught in the act; it doesn't specify that she was caught by only one person.

If there was more than one witness, they slowly all disappeared at Jesus' statement, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

Stoning the person was required first of those who witnessed the behaviour. But those who had witnessed the behaviour were, apparently, guilty themselves; and were therefore unworthy to pronounce judgment.