Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

Revelation 14:9-11.

Which clearly means they will always exist.

Evidence this is NOT a parable:

1. Other parables are designated as such
2. This story uses the actual name of a person, unlike other parables
3. Most parables are in the form of "a presentation of a spiritual truth using an earthly illustration"

But let's assume it's a parable. What is the spiritual truth being taught? It could only be that the unrighteous are eternally separated from God after death. In other words, what difference does it make whether it is a parable considering the nature of hell and separation from God being taught by it?

The scriptures you use to teach this are statements from people who are not trying to teach what happens to the dead but merely statements about their own limited assumptions of what happens to the dead in the context of making a point about their current conditions they found themselves dealing with. The same with the verses in Job you have used.

All books on hermeneutics use the very verses you post such as Eccl 9 5 that says the dead know nothing and how the same writer also says that the dead are happy. The answer to this seeming contradiction is that Eccl is that the writer is venting from an Earthly perspective. He does not know what happens to the dead but is making his statements from the perspective of someone who was seeking for meaning in life and finding it all vain. He is giving an honest testimony of what he thought about things as he sought purpose in life and the philosophical reasonings he came up with along the way.

You will be hard pressed to find any book on hermeneutics that do not use these verses to explain how to identify when a verse is someone expressing their own ideas and when it is God's prophetic revelation to us. The writer of Ecclesiastes expressing in a moment of frustration his wish to be dead so that he could know nothing does not mean that is what would really happen if he died, as he was in no state at the time to tell anyone what would happen in reality since he had just spent a significant amount of time confessing all of his backslidings. But you want to take his statements in that condition and declare them to be hard core literal doctrine unquestionable about what happens to people when they die, but say Jesus was not wanting us to get the idea that torment waits the wicked dead?

It is your choice. I think it is more sound reasoning to think that Jesus reinforced the idea of torment awaiting the wicked dead than it is to believe that the writer of Eccl making a statement when he was suicidal during his backslidden journey to find meaning in life was teaching doctrine about what happens to the wicked dead. He HOPED they had no knowledge but its a good thing he did not do himself in and find out that was not how it really is.

Good day.

Belief in the eternal Hell fire is not required for residency therein.

Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

characterized by "wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50).

I'm not reading the annihilation of the soul in Genesis 3:7, just how the soul was brought into being by God.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

They( the patriarchs) never heard the gospel. In hebrews 11 it says they "were/are not complete without us."

The patriarchs then heard the gospel and were raised from the dead

They are now in heaven, or as some put it, " paradise moved to heaven"

As good an explaination as any.
It is just saying they are with abraham in paradise.
" welcomed in love" ...and embrace

Consider the 1 Cor 15
No, the spiritual body is not immortal as it is dependent of the One that giveth. We will die as any other animal and be resurrected contingent of the Judgement of God. The bible clearly states this.

Consider eternal punishment
How many times has "eternal punishment" be used in the NT? I will answer for you. Once and only by Matthew. If the premises are
1) eternal punishment was referenced - (it was used only once - there can be no other correlation)
2) the spiritual body is immortal - (It is in conflict with other verses - 1 Timothy 6:16 for one)

All the premises are disagreeable. The doctrine of hell seems to have a lot of occult threads.
Consider "eternal punishment" is the literary device "contrast". See below.

Paraphrasing
Christians with the mark, followers who fear the world rather than love God.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Reason and excuse of the hypocrites.
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Rejecting the doctrine of hell which asks you to fear hell more than God is actually a little thing.

Literary device contrast - contrast punishment = reward , contrast life = death. Reward is life eternal , eternal punishment = death
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Death is needed to be resurrected.
1 Cor 15:35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. 38But God gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body.

Adam was made. Jesus grants the Spirit
1 Cor 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Why was Adam flesh and Jesus Spirit?
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first was of this earth. Jesus is from heaven.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

What is flesh flesh, the spirit spirit
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

We are animal but we have the representation of His nature. We are not immortals. Do not worship the image of self, as it is idolatrous.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

I'm curious, what do you think is the punishment of the sinner? Let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die.

9 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

.
I wouldn't be surprised if, over time, more men have talked about
Abraham's bosom than Jane Russell's, Marylyn Monroe's, Pamela
Anderson's, and Dolly Parton's combined.

I couldn't make the erotica vs pornography joke work for this forum. You beat me to it

Talkers to the dead spirits anyone?
Deuteronomy 18:9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
>>> paraphrase "the Wisdom of God, don't mix it up with pagan dung"

Deuteronomy 18:10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
>>> paraphrase "what they did in the valley of hinnon, was occult dung"

Deuteronomy 18:11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
>>> paraphrase "spirits of the dead can talk - not"

Deuteronomy 18:12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
>>> paraphrase "you are Commanded to drive these teachings from your midst"

Deuteronomy 18:13Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
>>> paraphrase "be sinless"

Deuteronomy 18:14For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
>>> paraphrase "it is Commanded, don't believe in the god of this world, or Else"

Ezekiel 28
Easy-to-Read Version
Tyre Thinks It Is Like a God
28 The word of the Lord came to me. He said, 2 “Son of man,[a] say to the ruler of Tyre, ‘This is what the Lord God says:

“‘You are very proud!
And you say, “I am a god!
I sit on the seat of gods
in the middle of the seas.”

“‘But you are a man and not God!
You only think you are a god.
3 You think you are wiser than Daniel
and no secret is hidden from you.
4 Through your wisdom and understanding
you have gotten riches for yourself.
And you put gold and silver
in your treasuries.
5 Through your great wisdom and trade,
you have made your riches grow.
And now you are proud
because of those riches.

6 “‘So this is what the Lord God says:
Tyre, you thought you were like a god.
7 I will bring strangers to fight against you.
They are most terrible among the nations!
They will pull out their swords
and use them against the beautiful things your wisdom brought you.
They will ruin your glory.
8 They will bring you down to the grave.
You will be like a sailor who died at sea.
9 That person will kill you.
Will you still say, “I am a god”?
No, he will have you in his power!
You will see that you are a man, not God!
10 Strangers will treat you like a foreigner[c] and kill you,
because I gave the command!’”
This is what the Lord God said.

11 The word of the Lord came to me. He said, 12 “Son of man, sing this sad song about the king of Tyre. Say to him, ‘This is what the Lord God says:

“‘You were the perfect man—
so full of wisdom and perfectly handsome.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God.
You had every precious stone—
rubies, topaz, and diamonds,
beryls, onyx, and jasper,
sapphires, turquoise, and emeralds.
And each of these stones was set in gold.
You were given this beauty on the day you were created.
God made you strong.
14 You were one of the chosen Cherubs
who spread your wings over my throne.
I put you on the holy mountain of God.
You walked among the jewels that sparkled like fire.
15 You were good and honest when I created you,
but then you became evil.
16 Your business brought you many riches.
But they also put cruelty inside you, and you sinned.
So I treated you like something unclean
and threw you off the mountain of God.
You were one of the chosen Cherubs
who spread your wings over my throne.
But I forced you to leave the jewels
that sparkled like fire.
17 Your beauty made you proud.
Your glory ruined your wisdom.
So I threw you down to the ground,
and now other kings stare at you.
18 You did many wrong things.
You were a very crooked merchant.
In this way you made the holy places unclean.
So I brought fire from inside you.
It burned you!
You burned to ashes on the ground.
Now everyone can see your shame.

19 “‘All the people in other nations
were shocked about what happened to you.
What happened to you will make people very afraid.
You are finished!’”

The Message Against Sidon
20 The word of the Lord came to me. He said, 21 “Son of man, look toward Sidon and speak for me against that place. 22 Say, ‘This is what the Lord God says:

“‘I am against you, Sidon!
Your people will learn to respect me.
I will punish Sidon.
Then people will know that I am the Lord.
Then they will learn that I am holy,
and they will treat me that way.
23 I will send disease and death to Sidon,
and many people inside the city will die.
Soldiers outside the city will kill many people.
Then people will know that I am the Lord!

The Nations Will Stop Laughing at Israel
24 “‘Then the surrounding nations that hate Israel will no longer be like stinging nettles[d] and painful thorns. And they will know that I am the Lord God.’”

25 This is what the Lord God said: “I scattered the people of Israel among other nations, but I will gather the family of Israel together again. Then the nations will know that I am holy, and they will treat me that way. At that time the people of Israel will live in their land—I gave that land to my servant Jacob. 26 They will live safely in the land. They will build houses and plant vineyards. I will punish the nations around them that hated them. Then the people of Israel will live in safety, and they will know that I am the Lord their God.”

Footnotes
Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man This was usually just a way of saying “a person” or “a human being.” Here, it is a way of addressing Ezekiel. Also in verses 12, 21.
Ezekiel 28:3 Daniel A wise man from ancient times. This might be Daniel from the Bible, or the Danel mentioned in the writings from Ras Shamra.
Ezekiel 28:10 foreigner Literally, “uncircumcised.” This means a person who did not share in the agreement God made with Israel. See “circumcise, circumcision” in the Word List.
Ezekiel 28:24 nettles Plants covered with stinging hairs.
Ezekiel 27

Romans 2
Easy-to-Read Version
Let God Be the Judge
2 So do you think that you can judge those other people? You are wrong. You too are guilty of sin. You judge them, but you do the same things they do. So when you judge them, you are really condemning yourself. 2 God judges all who do such things, and we know his judgment is right. 3 And since you do the same things as those people you judge, surely you understand that God will punish you too. How could you think you would be able to escape his judgment? 4 God has been kind to you. He has been very patient, waiting for you to change. But you think nothing of his kindness. Maybe you don’t understand that God is kind to you so that you will decide to change your lives.

5 But you are so stubborn! You refuse to change. So you are making your own punishment greater and greater. You will be punished on the day when God will show his anger. On that day everyone will see how right God is to judge people. 6 He will reward or punish everyone for what they have done. 7 Some people live for God’s glory, for honor, and for life that cannot be destroyed. They live for those things by always continuing to do good. God will give eternal life to them. 8 But others are selfish and refuse to follow truth. They follow evil. God will show his anger and punish them. 9 He will give trouble and suffering to everyone who does evil—to the Jews first and also to those who are not Jews. 10 But he will give glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does good—to the Jews first and also to those who are not Jews. 11 God judges everyone the same. It doesn’t matter who they are.

12 People who have the law and those who have never heard of the law are all the same when they sin. People who don’t have the law and are sinners will be lost. And, in the same way, those who have the law and are sinners will be judged by the law. 13 Hearing the law does not make people right with God. They will be right before him only if they always do what the law says.

14 Those who are not Jews don’t have the law. But when they naturally do what the law commands without even knowing the law, then they are their own law. This is true even though they don’t have the written law. 15 They show that in their hearts they know what is right and wrong, the same as the law commands, and their consciences agree. Sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done wrong, and this makes them guilty. And sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done right, and this makes them not guilty.

16 All this will happen on the day when God will judge people’s secret thoughts through Jesus Christ. This is part of the Good News that I tell everyone.

The Jews and the Law
17 What about you? You say you are a Jew. You trust in the law and proudly claim to be close to God. 18 You know what God wants you to do. And you know what is important, because you have learned the law. 19 You think you are a guide for people who don’t know the right way, a light for those who are in the dark. 20 You think you can show foolish people what is right. And you think you are a teacher for those who are just beginning to learn. You have the law, and so you think you know everything and have all truth. 21 You teach others, so why don’t you teach yourself? You tell them not to steal, but you yourself steal. 22 You say they must not commit adultery, but you yourself are guilty of that sin. You hate idols, but you steal them from their temples. 23 You are so proud that you have God’s law, but you bring shame to God by breaking his law. 24 As the Scriptures say, “People in other nations insult God because of you.”[a]

25 If you follow the law, then your circumcision has meaning. But if you break the law, then it is as if you were never circumcised. 26 Those who are not Jews are not circumcised. But if they do what the law says, it is as if they were circumcised. 27 You have the written law and circumcision, but you break the law. So those who are not circumcised in their bodies, but still obey the law, will show that you are guilty.

28 You are not a true Jew if you are only a Jew in your physical body. True circumcision is not only on the outside of the body. 29 A true Jew is one who is a Jew inside. True circumcision is done in the heart. It is done by the Spirit, not by the written law. And anyone who is circumcised in the heart by the Spirit gets praise from God, not from people.



Verse 8 does not say they will be wiped out completely, nor does it discuss bodies of the resurrected. Nor, in verse 7 it does not discuss the bodies of the righteous.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
Easy-to-Read Version
15 God will make that happen at the right time. God is the blessed and only Ruler. He is the King of all kings and the Lord of all lords. 16 God is the only one who never dies. He lives in light so bright that people cannot go near it. No one has ever seen him; no one is able to see him. All honor and power belong to him forever. Amen.

"
1 Timothy 6:16



Who only hath immortality (o monov exwn aqanasian). "The one who alone has immortality." Aqanasia (aqanatov, a privative and qanatov), old word, in N.T. only here and I Corinthians 15:53 f. Domitian demanded that he be addressed as "Dominus et Deus noster." Emperor worship may be behind the use of monov (alone) here.

"

1 Corinthians 15:53
Easy-to-Read Version
53 This body that ruins must clothe itself with something that will never ruin. And this body that dies must clothe itself with something that will never die.

1 Corinthians 15:53
King James Version
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Eze 28 is a mix, it speaks how the king physically died and Satan's fall from heaven. It is the King's body that is wiped out, not Satan at his fall.

Jesus said that he saw Satan fall from heaven which was not part of the finial events of time.

Below speaks about physical death too. Not end times.

Obadiah
Easy-to-Read Version
Edom Will Be Punished
1 This is the vision of Obadiah. This is what the Lord God says about Edom:

We heard a report from the Lord.
A messenger was sent to the nations.
He said, “Let’s go fight against Edom.”

The Lord Speaks to Edom
2 “Edom, I will make you the smallest nation.
Everyone will hate you very much.
3 Your pride has fooled you.
You live in those caves high on the cliff.
Your home is high in the hills.
So you say to yourself,
‘No one can bring me to the ground.’”

Edom Will Be Brought Low
4 This is what the Lord says:
“Even though you fly high like the eagle
and put your nest among the stars,
I will bring you down from there.
5 You really will be ruined!
Thieves will come to you.
Robbers will come in the night,
and they will take all they want.
When workers gather grapes in your vineyards,
they will leave a few grapes behind.
6 But the enemy will search hard for Esau’s hidden treasures,
and they will find them all.
7 All those who are your friends
will force you out of the land.
Those who were at peace with you will trick you,
and they will defeat you.
The soldiers who fought by your side
are planning a trap for you.
They say, ‘He doesn’t expect a thing!’”

8 The Lord says, “On that day
I will destroy the wise people from Edom.
I will destroy the intelligent people from the mountain of Esau.[a]
9 Teman, your brave soldiers will be afraid.
Everyone will be destroyed from the mountain of Esau.
Many people will be killed.
10 You will be covered with shame
because you were very cruel to your brother Jacob.
So you will be destroyed completely.
11 You joined the enemies of Israel.
Strangers carried Israel’s treasures away.
Foreigners entered Israel’s city gate.
They threw lots to decide what part of Jerusalem they would get.
And you were right there with them, waiting to get your share.
12 You should not have laughed
at your brother’s trouble.
You should not have been happy
when they destroyed Judah.
You should not have bragged[c]
at the time of their trouble.
13 You should not have entered the city gate of my people
and laughed at their problems.
You should not have taken their treasures
in the time of their trouble.
14 You should not have stood where the roads cross
and destroyed those who were trying to escape.
You should not have captured those who escaped alive.
15 The Day of the Lord is coming soon
to all the nations.
And the evil you did to others will happen to you.
The same bad things will fall down on your own head.
16 You spilled[d] blood on my holy mountain,[e Jerusalem from footnote ]
so other nations will spill your blood.[f]
You will be finished.
It will be as if you never existed.
17 But there will be survivors on Mount Zion.
They will be my special people.
The nation of Jacob[g] will take back
what belongs to it.
18 The family of Jacob will be like a fire.
The nation of Joseph will be like a flame.
But the nation of Esau[h] will be like ashes.
The people of Judah will burn Edom,
and they will destroy it.
Then there will be no survivors in the nation of Esau.”
This will happen because the Lord said it would.
19 Then people from the Negev will live on the mountain of Esau.
And people from the foothills will take the Philistine lands.
They will live in the land of Ephraim and Samaria.
Gilead will belong to Benjamin.
20 People from Israel were forced to leave their homes,
but they will take back the land of Canaan, all the way to Zarephath.
People from Judah were forced to leave Jerusalem and live in Sepharad.
But they will take back the cities of the Negev.
21 The winners[j] will go up on Mount Zion
to rule the people who live on Esau’s mountain.
And the kingdom will belong to the Lord.

Footnotes
Obadiah 1:8 mountain of Esau That is, Mount Seir.
Obadiah 1:12 laughed Literally, “looked.” Also in verse 13.
Obadiah 1:12 bragged Literally, “made your mouth big.”
Obadiah 1:16 spilled Literally, “drank.”
Obadiah 1:16 holy mountain One of the mountains Jerusalem was built on. Sometimes Zion is used to mean Jerusalem itself. Also in verses 17, 21.
Obadiah 1:16 spill your blood Literally, “drink and swallow.”
Obadiah 1:17 nation of Jacob Literally, “the house of Jacob.” This could mean the people of Israel or only its leaders.
Obadiah 1:18 nation of Esau Literally, “the house of Esau.”
Obadiah 1:20 Sepharad This is probably Spain.
Obadiah 1:21 winners Or “saviors.” Those who led their people to victory in war.

I already posted from Jewish Encyclopedia, Abraham's' Bosom was not symbolic.