Cain and Abel

This is incredibly important - you're not going to get this anywhere else.

I have been telling this forum for nearly an entire year now, that the Bible centers around Colossians 2:9-15 and the Circumcision of Christ.

Spiritual Circumcision, the idea of it, was instituted in the lives of Abraham and Sarah . . . back in Genesis chapter 17. Today, Spiritual Circumcision is represented in Water Baptism, but prior to Christ, Spiritual Circumcision was represented in physical circumcision.

Spiritual Circumcision is the "cutting away" of the Sinful Nature. Physical circumcision is the "cutting away" of that which is ugly, nasty, unclean and filthy . . . the foreskin of a man's phallus. Remember what Paul said about this?

Ephesians 2:11 NLT - "Don't forget that you Gentiles used to be outsiders. You were called "uncircumcised heathens" by the Jews, who were proud of their circumcision, even though it affected only their bodies and not their hearts."

But back to Abel. He was the first True Prophet.

Luke 11:50-51 NLT - "As a result, this generation will be held responsible for the murder of all God's prophets from the creation of the world-- from the murder of Abel to the murder of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, it will certainly be charged against this generation."

Yes, Abel was mentioned as a Prophet "from" the beginning. Physical circumcision produces blood, for it is the cutting away of the flesh (Sarx). This means that before Abraham was born, Christ [Was!], meaning that Christ had been performing Spiritual Circumcision from the beginning. And what did Abel do? He offered a "blood" sacrifice, which points to whom? Yes, Jesus Christ on the Cross. And what does Jesus have to do with Spiritual Circumcision?

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

Believe it . . . there were many conversations between Abel and the Lord that we know nothing about according to our traditional Bibles. But Abel, a True Prophet of the Lord, knew EXACTLY what was going on. He understood what it meant to offer a Blood sacrifice, that that sacrifice was pointing to the Tree of Life in the Garden . . . the same Tree of Life that would die upon Calvary Hill.

Friends, this is the Core of our Gospel. Circumcision of the Heart is what our Entire Bible points to! Or, do "you" think that the Holy Word Circumcision is just tossed into the Bible for no reason at all? Do you think that was some sort of weird concept that just shouldn't belong? Will "christians" always be ashamed of that word? Or, will we one day wake up and realize that "Oh . . . my . . . gosh . . . the Lord is one sneaky Dude, that He would hide His Mysterious Plan behind the phallus of a man!"

If I were a pastor, no one could become a member of the church until they read and understood the Old Testament. Wow, what a novel idea! To think that Christians should actually know and understand the Old Testament! We MUST understand why Abraham is our "Father of Faith" - We MUST understand what it means to belong to the "Family of Circumcision"! Of course, if a man is not Spiritually Circumcised, he/she is cut off from the "Family" or the Body of Christ!

Genesis 17:14 NLT - "Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant."

Refusing to be physically circumcised is like refusing to be Baptized. What nutjob would refuse to do that?

Lastly, do "you" really think that the "Two-Elevens" are a sheer coincidence?

Ephesians 2:11 KJV - "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands"

Colossians 2:11 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"

Come on friends . . . this is the True Gospel that YOUR pastors are REFUSING to teach you. And you think that they don't know about it? Of course they do . . . their noses and faces are in our Holy, incredible Bible more than anyone on the planet. So I advise that you get in their flippin' grill and demand an explanation for why they have refused to teach you the Truth!

It is a matter of knowing if God is an eternal God or a God that changes over time. there was a great change when God gave the old covenant in stone as a set of rules and then God found we could understand the God given in our hearts to be obeyed through love. We say it was a change in the law, but it wasn't. It was a change in the delivery of the law. God always remains the same.

That is true for Cain and Abel. They were living under the same God we live under, so we can be sure of how God saw the twp different sacrifices they made and understand God's reaction to those sacrifices.

We should ot make up reasons God had out of our own mind and our worldly values, but we must stay true to God's ways. That is that sacrifices must be related to the blood Christ shed for us, either literally or prophetically. With no blood there is no sacrifice accepted. Also, our ow work does not lead to salvation as Cain tried to use his ow work. God is truth, God is true. God is eternal and his ways are eternal.

God was teaching them that Blood sacrifice was going to be the sacrifice that counted.. The sacrafic of Able was a forshadowing of the eventual sacrafice of The LORD Jesus..

The acceptance and rejection had nothing to do with the acceptability of Able or Cain.. But Cain i believe took it as a personal rejection of himself and a personal acceptance of Able which provoked jealousy within him which lead him to commit the first murder..

Cain offered up the fruit of a cursed earth. The animals were not cursed - only subject to futility - baring the serpent.

Very good question.


I think the answer can be found in what God said to Cain in Genesis chapter 4:6-7



NLT "The LORD accepted Abel and his gift, 5 but he did not accept Cain and his gift. This made Cain very angry, and he looked dejected.
“Why are you so angry?” the LORD asked Cain. “Why do you look so dejected? 7 You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.”


God told Cain sin is crouching at the door and it is the NKJV says "And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

Master it. The issue was Cain's heart.

Jude 1:11

"Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain,"

the way of hate and anger that causes one to shed innocent blood. Cain did not listen to God. God said to Cain,

"You will be accepted if you do what is right."

Cain clearly was not doing right for God to tell Cain that he needs to.

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• Heb 11:4 . . By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By
faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his
offerings.

Had Abel not been a righteous man, then God would've rejected his offering
just as soundly as He rejected Cain's.

• Jas 2:26 . . As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is
dead.

Cain's situation is well illustrated at Isa 1:11-20. Moses' people were offering
all the covenanted sacrifices, they were praying up a storm, and observing
all the God-given feasts and holy days. He rejected all of it, even though He
himself required it, because the people's personal conduct was unbecoming.

• Prv 15:8 . .The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to Jehovah.

Perhaps the classic example is the one below.

"You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure
in burnt offerings." (Ps 51:16)

When David wrote that; he had only just committed the capital crimes of
adultery and premeditated murder. There was just no way that God was
going to accept his rituals on top of that; and David knew it too.

• Gen 4:7a . . If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

Cain believed in the existence of a supreme being; that was good, and his
ritual was timely; that was good too. But Cain's piety was flawed, i.e. his
personal conduct didn't meet God's standards, viz: Cain wasn't devout, thus
his impious ways tainted his offering and made it unacceptable. (cf. 1Pet
1:18-19 where it's implied that Christ's blood is an acceptable offering
because his ways were acceptable.)

FAQ: In what way might Cain's piety have been lacking?

A: Well, my first guess would be bad blood between him and his younger
sibling. (Matt 5:23-24)

And his conduct was deplorable; Cain was insolent and rude; even to God.
(Gen 4:9)

NOTE: It's likely a foregone conclusion that God is deeply insulted when
people whose conduct is unbecoming all during the week come to church on
Sunday actually thinking He's glad to see them show up for some quality
time together.
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God likes French fries.

If Abel had of been thinking In his heart that I don’t want to give GOD a lamb but not my best lamb would GOD have accepted him and his sacrifice because It was a lamb with blood?

yeah but God tells him “if he does what’s right he will be accepted “ and the. Scriptire says his works were evil and abels righteous sort of seems simple

if we are servants of sin our sacrifice isn’t going to be worthy , we learn that from the leviticle priesthood laws. It’s why only one guy per year could enter the most holy to make the atonement sacrifice they were all too sinful to be in Gods presence .

even the high priest had to shed blood for his own sins in order to shed it for the people.

cains sacrifice wasn’t wortr anything because his deeds were wicked and without repentance . Abel was a righteous man cain a wicked man seems to make pretty good sense to me anyways

is what we offer in sacrifice important ? Or is the person making the sacrifice what matters to God ?

There is no scripture backup for this, it is scripture that blood is required for sacrifice. Cain's sacrifice was rejected because he did not have faith enough to obey, he used fruits of his own labor as sacrifice instead of the blood requested.

It's a one two punch.....the person...... and then....the offering.

The Earth was not cursed and even if it was, the fruit wouldn't be cursed.

Cain was supposed to offer things he grew from the ground. He wasn't suppose to offer anything else.

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• Gen 4:7b . . But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your
door;

This is the very first instance in the Bible of the word "sin". The Hebrew word
is chatta'ah (khat-taw-aw') and/or chatta'th (khat-tawth') which are
ambiguous words that technically mean an offense; as in repeat offender. In
other words; not just an occasional slip-up, but a life-style.

• Gen 4:7c . . it desires to have you, but you must master it.

This is the first mention of self control in the Bible. In other words: God
created humanity with the capability to choose bad ways for itself; but that's
only half the story. God also created humanity with the capability to choose
good ways for itself; so He wasn't requiring something impossible from Cain
like touching his right elbow with the thumb of his right hand. I mean, if his
kid brother could choose good ways (Heb 11:4, 1John 3:12) then why not Cain?

Many years ago when I and my siblings were teen-agers attending an
evening service at our church, the minister asked us all to stand and
promise God that we would live a good life (or at least make an effort). Well,
my brother stood, but he didn't promise. Later at home, I asked him why he
didn't make the promise. He said: "There's some things I want to do".

Unbeknownst to us at the time; the minister, in his own words, had called
the congregation to heed Gen 4:7 just as God had urged Cain all those many
years ago. My sister and I, though not the best examples of self control, at
least began making an effort. But my brother; none at all. He preferred the
land of Nod, so to speak, where he could do as he pleased away from God's
meddling.

• Rom 6:12-13 . . Do not let sin control the way you live; do not give in to
its lustful desires. Do not let any part of your body become a tool of
wickedness, to be used for sinning. Instead, give yourselves completely to
God since you have been given new life. And use your whole body as a tool
to do what is right for the glory of God.
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Had their offerings been meant for sin, then the Hebrew word 'olah
would've been used to define them instead of minchah; for example
Gen 8:20 and Gen 22:2.

Olah offerings are typically destroyed by fire whereas minchah's not so much
because their purpose is different.

Sacrifices should never be assumed always destructive and/or bloody. Take
for example:

"I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living
sacrifices" (Rom 12:1)

"Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God,
that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name. And do not neglect
doing good and sharing; for with such sacrifices God is pleased." (Heb
13:15-17)

Heb 11:4 also testifies that Abel's offerings were gifts; defined by the very
same Greek word used at Matt 2:11 to classify the treasures that the wise
men presented to baby Jesus.

Their gifts were not atonements; they were tributes: defined by Webster's as
(1) something given or contributed voluntarily as due or deserved especially
a gift or service showing respect, gratitude, or affection and (2) something
(such as material evidence or a formal attestation) that indicates the worth,
virtue, or effectiveness of the one in question

In other words "gifts" are acts of worship; which is the primary reason why
Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate birthdays.

I'm confident in my own mind that the Cain and Abel incident is unrelated to
Christ's crucifixion rather, it's a lesson about protocol.

There are sincere folk out there who honestly believe the best way to
connect with God is via rituals (Cain's way), whereas others sincerely believe
the best way is via conduct (Christ's way).

• 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in
the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth
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Your scriptures have nothing to do with your statement that God asked Cain for sacrifices from what he grew from the ground. I don't think there is one!

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• Gen 4:8a . . Now Cain talked with Abel his brother;

Cain probably complained to his brother that God was unfair. But the poor
man couldn't have picked a worse sounding board because Abel was a
prophet (Luke 11:50-51). In Cain's dispute with the Lord, Abel no doubt
took God's side in it. That was too much. There's no way a man like Cain
was going to take a lecture from his own kid brother. Abel's popularity with
God was bad enough, but preaching only made it worse and added insult to
injury.

No doubt Cain was very envious of his kid brother's on-going popularity with
God. Poor Abel lost his life just because he was a pious man.

"Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother.
And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his
brother's were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world
hates you." (1John 3:12-13)

One of the boys involved in the April 20, 1999 Columbine High School
shooting incident shot and killed a girl in the cafeteria just because she
believed in God. Isn't that amazing? That boy was nothing in the world but a
twentieth century Cain with a gun.

• Gen 4:8b . . and when they were in the field, Cain set upon his brother
Abel and killed him.

Whether or not Cain premeditated his brother's death that day is difficult to
tell. However; the word for "killed" is from harag (haw-rag') and means: to
smite with deadly intent. So the attack on his kid brother, whether
premeditated or not, was definitely meant to end Abel's life rather than to
just rough him up and teach him a lesson.

How Cain planned to explain Abel's death to his parents isn't stated. He
couldn't very well blame it on a carnivorous predator since man and beast
were on friendly terms prior to the Flood. It's my guess he set up the crime
scene to make it look like an accident but then too, in light of verse 10, Cain
may have buried Able; that way he'd be reported as a missing person
instead of possibly murdered.
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yeah unrepentant sinners can sacrifice anything and it won’t help , a repentant person who has sinned can offer anytring from the heart and it will be acceptable to God.

the atonement was made before any of this when God made garments of skin to cover thier shame. Thier offerings werent meant to atone for thier sins they were fellowship offerings. The state of the person fellowshipping with God is what matters not the sacrifice.

If we’re right th God we’re acceptable if we’re not right with God we’re not going to be acceptable

if you look at why cain wasn’t accepted it poo ya to his ways , his deeds being unacceptable “ if you do well you will be accepted if you dont do well , sin is crouching st your door d trying to get you and overcome you , you must overcome it “

cain then kills his brother. Would you say if he had sacrificed a sheep like abel he would have been acceptable ? Or does it actually matter most what he did actions wise …..and that’s why his sacrifice was not acceptable ?

I’d say ( just my own personal opinion ) that if cain had repented and started doing good he would have been acceptable king with his sacrifice.

But again that’s just my own opinion others have other opinions

Hebrews 9:22 — "Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." refers to Lev. 17:11 for the life of the body is in its blood. I have given you the blood on the altar to purify you, making you right with the Lord.[ a] It is the blood, given in exchange for a life, that makes purification possible.

It is a universal truth that there can be no sacrifice without blood. Christ is the only way, either literal Christ or Christ in prophecy as it was under the sacrificial system.

When God covered Adam and Eve with skins, he had shed the blood of animals to show us his plan for our salvation that God established from the time Adam and Eve required it.

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Sacrifices-- a.k.a. gifts and offerings --are not always required to be bloody,
nor always for, nor always because of, sin. See posts No.3 and No.35
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