More on Christians and demons.

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J

jb

Senior Member
#61
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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#61
Gideon300 said:
This subject is not all my favourite. Still, an argument has been raised against my position. Rather than address every post, I'll respond this way.

The word "possess" creates a deal of angst with some Christians. Perhaps it is the portrayal of possession in horror movies such as the Exorcist. In reality, demons like to hide in the personality of the person, infiltrating and manipulating until the person is bound in a particular sin.

For example, pride. This is a huge problem for those who make spiritual progress. Some start to think it was something about them that impressed God to the point that He wanted to bless them especially. That suggestion may be planted by a demon. If the person accepts that lie, the demon will encroach further and further into his mind, with the intent of controlling his will. It is far better to reject the proud thought before it becomes entrenched. But if it is entrenched, then the individual has taken a demon onboard.

Often people are blissfully unaware of their condition. That's where the church should step in. The believer needs to be made aware of the problem and be willing to be set free.

Some say that Christians cannot have a demon. On the same basis, Christians should never get sick. Sickness is of the devil, God is our healer and the Holy Spirit gives life to our mortal bodies. Yet Christians do get ill. Eventually, we die. And that is in spite of the Holy Spirit giving life to our mortal bodies. No, given the right conditions, Christians will get sick and can be healed. Likewise, Christians can be bound by demons and yes, can be delivered.
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In reality, what many Christians ascribe to demons is simply the flesh! Gal 5v16-26.

Hence, if we follow Paul's example, we will have victory over the works of the flesh! 1Cor 9v24-27.

And no, a Christian cannot be possessed by a demon, and indeed there is no such example in the New Testament! Luke 10v19 (and many like Scriptures)...
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#62
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
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#62


Maybe everybody so interested in demons should read this book. This guy is amazing and I do like his teachings. Unfortunately he is busy fighting cancer at the moment so maybe also keep him in your prayers.
 
Rhomphaeam

Rhomphaeam

Active member
#64
Dec 14, 2021
768
203
43
England
www.nblc.church
#64
GandalfTheWhite said:


Maybe everybody so interested in demons should read this book. This guy is amazing and I do like his teachings. Unfortunately he is busy fighting cancer at the moment so maybe also keep him in your prayers.
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I am not a supporter of promoting the Divine Council doctrine - albeit that Heiser does make some valid points - but anyhow here is a video that speaks about the book you recommended.

 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#65
Mar 18, 2021
4,947
2,871
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#65
jb said:
In reality, what many Christians ascribe to demons is simply the flesh! Gal 5v16-26.

Hence, if we follow Paul's example, we will have victory over the works of the flesh! 1Cor 9v24-27.

And no, a Christian cannot be possessed by a demon, and indeed there is no such example in the New Testament! Luke 10v19 (and many like Scriptures)...
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Acts 5:
3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and withhold some of the proceeds from the land? 4Did it not belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How could you conceive such a deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God!”
Acts 5:
15As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on cots and mats, so that at least Peter’s shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. 16Crowds also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those tormented by unclean spirits, and all of them were healed.
Mark 16:
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
1 Timothy 1:
19holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and thereby shipwrecked their faith. 20Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Most people are infested with demons. They do not leave just because a person gets born again. They have to be driven out.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#67
#67
Gideon300 said:
I believe that we should be more conscious of who we are in Christ. Peter said "What I have, I give to you...." That sounds like a boast, but he immediately goes on, "In the name of Jesus....." That's who we have. All the power and authority of Christ. That is not a boast, it is a fact. Some Christians are not aware of who they are in Christ and live in spiritual poverty. Others take the credit for themselves and are full of pride. Neither is correct.

The name of Jesus is our authority and the Holy Spirit is the power. We do not cast out demons in the name of the Holy Spirit!
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I'm not not the person who said we cast out demons in the name of the Holy Spirit. not sure if you meant that for me or not, but it wasn't me

believers are not conscious or aware of who we are in Christ by and large. I wasn't until some years back. Never taught in church for the most part and anything about demons completely verboten. just sweep in under the carpet and pray you don't trip over it

I would add, after a very steep learning curve, that fear is a demon's base camp (once they are discovered) and people do not want to deal or prefer to think it's just a flesh problem. the Bible does not mention exorcists, but the fact each Christian should be able to deal as the need arises, as you say...but we do not have that

in my experience, a person has to search the truth out for themself. I know I did. I could relate certain experiences including my own
(I was terrified of the dark as a child and had reason to be) including being approached by witches and one in particular, but if people could just understand that the demonic is not a scary movie on tv, but actual real life that Christians are involved with...either in being susceptible to being bothered or in helping those who are, it would make a difference and maybe end or improve the up and down life a Christian should not have to suffer under

everyone has an opinion though and the nuts come out when you bring up this subject...so...dunno
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#68
#68
GandalfTheWhite said:


Maybe everybody so interested in demons should read this book. This guy is amazing and I do like his teachings. Unfortunately he is busy fighting cancer at the moment so maybe also keep him in your prayers.
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there are so many books on demons and 'spiritual warfare' that a 'Christian' bookstore has an entire section devoted to them

every Christian should have some knowledge of what we deal with...it's not really an option

Paul said we do not wrestle against flesh and blood

as someone else eloquently put it...many read that this way "we wrestle not"

pity
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#69
#69
I should add demons love to go to church and act like light bearers

religious spirits have a grand old time through many people but who wants to address that

however if you ever come up against one, you will know it...well hopefully...having had to deal with a number of them, (not in me...but suffered under them for far too long cause I just didn't know) they are among the worst

12 And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. II Corinthians 11

sure tell yourself those are easily spotted and maybe yes or maybe no. but what about granny who attends church every time it's open?

there is power in the words of people who are under demonic influence. believe it or not
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#70
Dec 9, 2011
13,742
1,728
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#70
Gideon300 said:
Agreed that some issues are mental illness. However, I've watched Christians helpless on the floor, laughing uncontrollably. I've watched a Christian rocking backwards and forwards like an autistic child, fall on the floor and start writhing like a snake. I quietly bound the demon and the writhing stopped immediately. The Toronto Blessing video shows Christians under the control of demons.

There is a spiritual gift of discernment of spirits for a reason. This is one problem that won't be solved by ignoring it.
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Can you provide a link for this video?🥰
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#71
Jan 27, 2021
1,336
521
113
#71
Gideon300 said:
This subject is not all my favourite. Still, an argument has been raised against my position. Rather than address every post, I'll respond this way.

The word "possess" creates a deal of angst with some Christians. Perhaps it is the portrayal of possession in horror movies such as the Exorcist. In reality, demons like to hide in the personality of the person, infiltrating and manipulating until the person is bound in a particular sin.

For example, pride. This is a huge problem for those who make spiritual progress. Some start to think it was something about them that impressed God to the point that He wanted to bless them especially. That suggestion may be planted by a demon. If the person accepts that lie, the demon will encroach further and further into his mind, with the intent of controlling his will. It is far better to reject the proud thought before it becomes entrenched. But if it is entrenched, then the individual has taken a demon onboard.

Often people are blissfully unaware of their condition. That's where the church should step in. The believer needs to be made aware of the problem and be willing to be set free.

Some say that Christians cannot have a demon. On the same basis, Christians should never get sick. Sickness is of the devil, God is our healer and the Holy Spirit gives life to our mortal bodies. Yet Christians do get ill. Eventually, we die. And that is in spite of the Holy Spirit giving life to our mortal bodies. No, given the right conditions, Christians will get sick and can be healed. Likewise, Christians can be bound by demons and yes, can be delivered.
Click to expand...
You need to know the difference between being possessed(sinners), and being oppressed(saints) BIG difference.
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#72
Jan 27, 2021
1,336
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#72
Blik said:
This problem is truly serious and it is being ignored. The most learned solution I have read about is to add men trained in exorcism to the church.

The church has used people with gift of discernment and it didn't work. If it is a policy of the church there needs to be professional training. A doctor needs to be consulted to be sure it is demons. The person hired to work with demons has taken on a dangerous profession and can use all the information available.

You knew the basic principle when you worked with demons--that they only respond to Christ, it is only through Christ they can be gotten rid of.

As it is, there is no professional person to go to for help, or even a way to find out if it is demons or physical illness causing trouble. The Catholic church is the only denomination that has had exorcist on staff, and I am most certainly not a Catholic. Demons don't ask what church denomination their enemies belong to, they look to see if it is Christ's word or not.

I lived with a person ill with Bipolar disorder for awhile. It is caused by glands not functioning correctly, but our gland functions respond to our thoughts. Test that yourself. Think Wow, I did that great, and everything seems great and good. Now slump and tell yourself you failed again, and everything seems wrong and bad. The Lord tells us to watch our thoughts.

We have professional pastors, we also need professional exorcists.
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That's one of the problems with the modern church, they think they need "professionals". School taught people with degrees to prove who they are. "Knowledge puffeth up", & many(not all) are puffed up in their "training".

Whatever happened to the phrase "they shall be taught of God"? The Holy Spirit is the teacher of these things, that's why we are to "walk in the Spirit". Those "professionals" who don't are merely walking in their flesh.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#73
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#73
Rhomphaeam said:
I am not a supporter of promoting the Divine Council doctrine - albeit that Heiser does make some valid points - but anyhow here is a video that speaks about the book you recommended.

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Demon possession is such a serious subject and it is so often written about without any attempt to be factual about it that it is important that you are very careful about reading about it. I don't think any book that mixes doctrine with demons should be read.

M Scott Peck writes about demons from a doctor of psychology's point of view. He doesn't write of theory so much as of actual experiences with demons. There is plenty of fantasy about demons, it is important we keep to actual facts.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#74
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#74
Edify said:
That's one of the problems with the modern church, they think they need "professionals". School taught people with degrees to prove who they are. "Knowledge puffeth up", & many(not all) are puffed up in their "training".

Whatever happened to the phrase "they shall be taught of God"? The Holy Spirit is the teacher of these things, that's why we are to "walk in the Spirit". Those "professionals" who don't are merely walking in their flesh.
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If this reasoning is good reasoning, then it should be applied to ministers, and we want our ministers well trained. We would not say that a trained minister is not walking in the spirit, and neither is a trained exorcist.
 
E

Edify

Well-known member
#75
Jan 27, 2021
1,336
521
113
#75
Blik said:
If this reasoning is good reasoning, then it should be applied to ministers, and we want our ministers well trained. We would not say that a trained minister is not walking in the spirit, and neither is a trained exorcist.
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I have seen many trained ministers walk in the flesh because they were trained only by men & not by God.
If memory serves me right, the only exorcists mentioned in scripture were beaten up & stripped by a demon.
The demon knew Jesus & Paul, but he didn't know them.:)
The only "trained" exorcists I know of today are in the Roman Catholic Church, so there you go.
 
Rhomphaeam

Rhomphaeam

Active member
#76
Dec 14, 2021
768
203
43
England
www.nblc.church
#76
Edify said:
f memory serves me right, the only exorcists mentioned in scripture were beaten up & stripped by a demon
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The seven sons of Sceva. Acts 19:14. I forgot about the Hebrew exorcists whilst reading this thread. Good call.

We should all be rather careful how we cite the power of the Kingdom of Heaven for sure - trained by men or not - trained by God undoubtably. It's an area of ludicrous proportions with deep rivers with whirlpools and eddies and many stones tossed about. The subject should be mostly hidden from sight.

And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. Matthew 12:27-28.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#77
Mar 18, 2021
4,947
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#77
SophieT said:
I'm not not the person who said we cast out demons in the name of the Holy Spirit. not sure if you meant that for me or not, but it wasn't me

believers are not conscious or aware of who we are in Christ by and large. I wasn't until some years back. Never taught in church for the most part and anything about demons completely verboten. just sweep in under the carpet and pray you don't trip over it

I would add, after a very steep learning curve, that fear is a demon's base camp (once they are discovered) and people do not want to deal or prefer to think it's just a flesh problem. the Bible does not mention exorcists, but the fact each Christian should be able to deal as the need arises, as you say...but we do not have that

in my experience, a person has to search the truth out for themself. I know I did. I could relate certain experiences including my own
(I was terrified of the dark as a child and had reason to be) including being approached by witches and one in particular, but if people could just understand that the demonic is not a scary movie on tv, but actual real life that Christians are involved with...either in being susceptible to being bothered or in helping those who are, it would make a difference and maybe end or improve the up and down life a Christian should not have to suffer under

everyone has an opinion though and the nuts come out when you bring up this subject...so...dunno
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40 or 50 years ago deliverance was a normal part of Christian ministry. I believe that the epistles say little because it was normal back then also. Ignorance is not bliss. God's people are still destroyed because of their lack of knowledge.

I grew up in a home where the occult was normal. That was on my mother's side, dad was an atheist. I'm living proof that Satan cannot stop God from saving anyone! And yes, fear is Satan's primary attack. He may not stop people being saved but he can and does hinder spiritual growth.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#78
Mar 18, 2021
4,947
2,871
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#78
Edify said:
You need to know the difference between being possessed(sinners), and being oppressed(saints) BIG difference.
Click to expand...
You need to wake up to the reality of demons taking control of Christians. Possession does not mean total control. It does mean in certain areas a Christian can be helpless to overcome. I know this to be true. Casting out a demon is easy. Yet many Christians run away from it as if it were poison. What are they afraid of?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#80
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#80
Edify said:
I have seen many trained ministers walk in the flesh because they were trained only by men & not by God.
If memory serves me right, the only exorcists mentioned in scripture were beaten up & stripped by a demon.
The demon knew Jesus & Paul, but he didn't know them.:)
The only "trained" exorcists I know of today are in the Roman Catholic Church, so there you go.
Click to expand...
I don't think that by saying there are trained ministers who walk in the flesh, then we must not train anyone for church work. I don't think having untrained people in the church will stop the flesh working in the church.

Scripture does not give us a manual on how to rid anyone of demon possession. We need to study carefully all it does say. Scripture is truth, and if we find a truth about anything, it agrees with God for God is truth. If a man who belongs to Christ writes that he has experienced something about working with demons, I don't think we can just go to the word to see if the word says that very same thing. Truth is truth, and truth is of God.

God led us to ways to work with certain diseases. We don''t toss them out, saying that isn't told to us in scripture so we won't use it to help people.
 
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