Alcohol - a world wide phenomena

Strong drink? Gibson's Finest (12-year) last time I checked. Which was back in the 80s. Wow!

What law states that turning water into wine is a sin? Hard to say if that amount of alcohol would get everyone drunk as it would depend upon the number of guests, and the length of time to consume it. The feast may have been over a period of days and not hours.

Whiskey, bourbon, vodka, tequila, gin, etc.

Would alcohol be "good fruit" or "corrupt fruit"?

75 Scripture Warnings against drinking of Alcohol
‘There is more Scripture objectively condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.
(This is a wide collection...there are more specifics)

1) Genesis 9:20-26 – Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.
2) Genesis 19:30-38 – Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality
3) Leviticus 10:9-11 – God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.
4) Numbers 6:3 – The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.
5) Deuteronomy 21:20 – A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.
6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 – God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
7) Deuteronomy 32:33 – Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.
8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 – Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.
9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 – Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.
10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 – Nabal died after a drunken spree.
11) 2 Samuel 11:13 – By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.
12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 – Amnon was drunk when he was killed.
13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 – The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated
14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 – Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.
15) Esther 1:5-12 – The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.
16) Psalm 75:8 – The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.
17) Proverbs 4:17 – Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
18) Proverbs 20:1 – Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
19) Proverbs 23:19-20 – A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.
20) Proverbs 23:21 – Drunkenness causes poverty.
21) Proverbs 23:29-30 – Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.
22) Proverbs 23:31 – God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.
23) Proverbs 23:32 – Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.
24) Proverbs 23:33 – Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.
25) Proverbs 23:34 – Alcohol makes the drinker unstable
26) Proverbs 23:35 – Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.
27) Proverb 31:4-5 – Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.
28) Proverbs 31:6-7 – Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.
29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 – The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)
30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 – A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.
31) Isaiah 5:11-12 – Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.
32) Isaiah 5:22 – Woe to “champion” drinkers and “experts” at mixing drinks.
33) Isaiah 19:14 – Drunken men stagger in their vomit.
34) Isaiah 22:12-13 – The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.
35) Isaiah 24:9 – Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.
36) Isaiah 28:1 – God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.
37) Isaiah 28:3 – Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.
38) Isaiah 28:7 – Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.
39) Isaiah 28:8 – Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.
40) Isaiah 56:9-12 – Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.
41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 – The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.
42) Ezekiel 44:21 – Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.
43) Daniel 1:5-17 – Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.
44) Daniel 5:1 – Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.
45) Daniel 5:2-3 – The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.
46) Daniel 5:4 – Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.
47) Daniel 5:23 – God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.
48) Hosea 4:11 – Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.
49) Hosea 7:5 – God reproves princes for drinking.
50) Joel 1:5 – Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.
51) Joel 3:3 – The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.
52) Amos 2:8 – Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.
53) Amos 2:12 – Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.
54) Micah 2:11 – Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.
55) Nahum 1:10 – The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.
56) Habakkuk 2:5 – A man is betrayed by wine.
57) Habakkuk 2:15 – Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.
58) Habakkuk 2:16 – Drinking leads to shame.
59) Matthew 24:48-51 – A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.
60) Luke 1:15 – John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.
61) Luke 12:45 – Christ warned against drunkenness.
62) Luke 21:34 – Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.
63) Romans 13:13 – Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.
64) Romans 14:21 – Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.
65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 – If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.
66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 – Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God
67) Galatians 5:21 – Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.
68) Ephesians 5:18 – In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.
69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 – Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.
70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 – Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
71) 1 Timothy 3:8 – Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
72) 1 Timothy 3:11 – Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
73) Titus 1:7-8 – An overseer is to be disciplined.
74) Titus 2:2-3 – The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.
75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 – The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.’

It is post #143...I will carry it forward for you.

REPLY
REPORT EDIT DELETE

Which means it's been than long since I had a Margarita! That's not a sin, but it might be close!

If you consider the study I cover those details and give estimates on known marriage feasts length of time, and population of the time, etc. You just might be shocked at the amount per person even after their previous "wine" ran out.

Consider the question carefully.

Alcoholic "wine" is used as a symbol for sin and death in scripture.

If you do some research, you will find out that through the 1500's and 1700's, grape juice was commonly called wine. Keep in mind that the King James Bible was translated in 1611.

"Juice when newly expressed, and before it has begun to ferment, is called 'must', and in common language 'new wine'." Dr. Ure, Dictionary of Arts

"Sweet wine is that which has not yet fermented." Chamber's Cyclopedia 6th edition (1750)

"The juice or liquor pressed out of the ripe grapes is called vinum (wine)." Parkinson, Theatrum Botanicum

"When on the south coast of Italy last Christmas, I enquired particularly about the wines in common use, and found that those esteemed the best were sweet and unintoxicating...The Calabrians keeps their intoxicating and unintoxicating wines in separate apartments...I found that the unfermented wines were esteemed the most. Great pains were taken in the vintage season to have a good stock of it laid by." Captain Treat, in 1845, Dr. Lee's Works

John 2:9 (KJV)
[9] When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wineG3631, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

wineG3631-3631. οἰ̃νος oínos; gen. oínou, masc. noun. Wine derived from grapes. The mention of the bursting of the wine skins in Mt 9:17; Mk 2:22; Lk 5:37,38 implies fermentation. See Lk 1:15; 7:33; 10:34; Ro 14:21; Ep 5:18 [cf. Jn 2:3,9,10; 4:46]; 1Ti 3:8; 5:23; Tit 2:3; Rev 6:6; 18:13; Sept.: Ge 9:21,24; 14:18; 27:28; Jdg 9:13. From the intoxicating effects of wine and the idolatrous use of it among the heathen, wine signifies communion in the intoxicating idolatries of the mystic Babylon (Rev 14:8 [cf. Je 51:7]). It denotes metaphorically the dreadful judgments of God upon sinners (Rev 14:10; 16:19; 19:15 [cf. Isa 51:17; Je 25:15; Eze 23:31]). The drinking of wine, though not forbidden by Scripture (as is drunkenness [Ep 5:18]), is to be avoided in the presence of weaker brothers who might be influenced to partake against their consciences (Ro 14:21). In 1Ti 5:23 oínos is recommended for medicinal purposes.

A non scriptural source that carries it's inherent bias?

I'll trade you one non scriptural source for another -

"Oinos

(Noun) wine that is either fermented or unfermented (Depends on the context)

(Noun) Wine that is not fermented " - https://www.definition-of.com/Oinos

If you do not care for that source simply out of biased preference because it is clearly against an erroneous a priori, try these other scholarly non scriptural sources (how many do you need) - https://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2008/04-10b.html

I posted the original Koine Greek word that is used in this instance. If you have no formal training in the original languages and cannot see the context, then I can see how you might reject what is posted. Spiros Zodhiates was considered a serious Greek Scholar by most teachers, before your time.

No, what you did was cite S.Z. without giving credit to the original source in the original reply, and that was simply a Strong's Concordance number of the root word. The actual spelling in John 2:9 koine Greek "οἶνον". I did also provide several non scriptural Greek authorities that refute Calvinist S.Z. Why reject my sources for your one source? They're all not Bible. I actually get my definition of "wine" from scripture, not non scriptural sources.

As for the latter part of your comments they assume something of me, which is merely Ad Hominem. Unworthy of my time. Why not instead deal with the research I provide at least twice now, which is more than adequate to overthrow S.Z. and your koine Greek and Hebrew and even English language knowledge.

I’m afraid your reading comprehension is on par with your interpretation.

Deut. 7:13 so called lxx - καὶ ἀγαπήσει σε καὶ εὐλογήσει σε καὶ πληθυνεῖ σε καὶ εὐλογήσει τὰ ἔκγονα τῆς κοιλίας σου καὶ τὸν καρπὸν τῆς γῆς σου τὸν σῖτόν σου καὶ τὸν οἶνόν σου καὶ τὸ ἔλαιόν σου τὰ βουκόλια τῶν βοῶν σου καὶ τὰ ποίμνια τῶν προβάτων σου ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἧς ὤμοσεν κύριος τοῖς πατράσιν σου δοῦναί σοι

Deut. 7:13 KJB - "And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee."

"wine" - οἶνόν, all in the context of first fruits, of womb, and of the land. Nothing to do with alcohol, but rather the fresh juice of the grape harvest, the juice of the vine.

Deu 11:14: "That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil."

Notice that the "wine" was to be "gather(ed) in" along with "corn" (grain) and "oil" (olive harvest). Nothing about fermentation, corruption, distilling, etc. Fresh harvest food.

Deu 12:17: "Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:"

Tithe, is the first fruits. Numerous more examples may be provided as needful.

A close study of new wine in scriptures strongly concludes that refers to grape juice.
Old wine has fermented and has alcohol.

Look, you are convinced it was grape juice (unfermented), I am convinced it was fermented juice of the highest quality. This word for wine is properly interpreted by its context. You clearly view the “Overseer” of the wedding party as too drunk to know the difference between fresh grape juice and wine when he declares it as “superior” to the wine that was furnished to guests prior.

I understand modern day objections to alcohol and what it can do when people drink to excess. I have seen it personally and many would do well to never drink. But, we are tasked to correctly interpret Scripture, in order to learn what is being taught. When emotions and human reasoning supplants strait-forward interpretation, then the correct lesson is not gained, and a human construct takes it’s place. That is where we are today in Bible literacy, unfortunately.

I will hazard a guess and say that it is very good fruit.

"Bottle of wine, fruit of the vine,
When you gonna let me get sober?
Leave me alone, let me go home,
Let me go home and start over.

A pain in my head, there's bugs in my bed,
My pants are so old that they shine.
Out on the street, I beg the people I meet,
To buy me a bottle of wine."

When scripture is properly interpreted, in its particular context, one must put outside prejudice and personal bias. It is fruitless to wrest scripture in order to suit one's personal narrative of what they may want to believe is actually true. I fully concur with your estimation.