Is Paul or Jesus your main guide?

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Mar 12, 2022
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God hates the hands that shed innocent blood, not the innocent blood itself.
If you need His blood for the remmision of your sins, you are crucifying Christ already in your heart, shedding His innocent blood in your heart, and requiring it at your hand for the remission of your sins.
I am not shedding His blood in my heart, I am the one beeing crucified with Him, I do not require His innocent blood for my sins, instead I forsake all pleasures and lusts of the flesh thru repentance and ammendment, in a pure sacrifice of God:

17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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If you need is blood for the remmision of your sins, you are crucifying Christ already in your heart, shedding His innocent blood in your heart, and requiring it at your hand for the remission of your sins.
I am not shedding His blood in my heart, I am the one beeing crucified with Him, I do not require His innocent blood for my sins, instead I forsake all pleasures and lusts of the flesh thru repentance and ammendment, in a pure sacrifice of God:

17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.


John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
I don't require anything. I received what the Bible says is a requirement like a child. Now I am testifying of the Bible to you.

Well, you had an opportunity to publicly state your views on the blood of Christ, but instead deflected. I don't know any Christians who would do that.

"Spiritual status: unsure"

Let me ask you a question. Do you believe the following passage is true in your heart?

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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Some folks are of the father
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Mat_10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

I will not be giving you a platform to preach your cult trash.
 
Mar 12, 2022
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I don't require anything.
So you don't require innocent blood to be shed for your sins? Welcome to the "repentance and ammendment" club.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Do you believe this passage:

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
I just told you I am against murder.
 

Mandy5

New member
Mar 14, 2022
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I talk everything from the bible to heart. Since everything in the Bible is from God, everything matters. I pray for Jesus spirit to be with me and guide me each day
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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They both give the truth, but in such a different way.

Jesus jumps right into our lives both today and for eternity. Jesus says repent, and his ministry is telling us what the kingdom of heaven is like. Jesus wants us to live in this world kingdom as if it really is the kingdom of heaven. Jesus even asks us to pray each day for this, saying “thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven”.

Paul tells us all about Christ, and what Christ means to us. Paul isn’t so much for doing and being as he is for studying and learning. He even cautions us about being careful what we do, being sure it is not to earn salvation. He cautions us about the law all the time.

Christ explains that he doesn’t change anything his Father told us, but Christ explains the real law is a spiritual law for the Father is spirit and truth. Moses had given the law in stone to be obeyed by the letter, Jesus explained the law is of the heart. He carefully told us how this works as he explained the difference in the law from Moses and from him by showing how it worked in the law about murder, adultery, divorce, telling the truth, and loving our enemies. See Matt. 5:12-48.

When Paul explained this, he gives the impression to some people that God cancelled the law, even. Paul analyzes and explains until instead of the law freeing us it becomes some frightening thing.

I love Paul, he makes me dig deep into the ways of the Lord. But for getting to the joy of living, to know the bottom line of all things, it is Christ I follow.
Both lead lead us to the infilling and resulting guidance from the Holy Spirit who will guide us in ALL truth.
best wishes
 
Mar 4, 2020
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So you don't require innocent blood to be shed for your sins? Welcome to the "repentance and ammendment" club.


Do you believe this passage:

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.


I just told you I am against murder.
I guess you aren't answering my questions and I'm not answering yours. Okie dokie. Good chatting with you. I hope you find Christ while you're here. If you ever want to continue this conversation and make a decision to accept the gospel of Christ I'm here to help and/or pray with you and for you.
 
Mar 12, 2022
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the gospel of Christ
You mean this Gospel:

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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You mean this Gospel:

Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
No. That’s not what I said.

Where the word gospel is used it isn’t always, without exception, referring to the exact same gospel. Matthew 26:13 is pre-crucifixion and it isn’t a reference to the gospel of salvation that involved the shedding of Christs blood for the forgiveness of sins.

Matthew 26:13 is about what Christ was preaching all along: the gospel of the kingdom referenced in Matthew 4:23, Matthew 9:35, Matthew 24:14, and elsewhere.

The mentioning of that woman is only necessary when people preach the gospel of the kingdom, but that is not the primary directive of Christians before Christ ascended. He left clear instructions for Christians before going to His Father.

Matthew 28:18-20
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
 
Mar 12, 2022
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Where the word gospel is used it isn’t always, without exception, referring to the exact same gospel. Matthew 26:13 is pre-crucifixion and it isn’t a reference to the gospel of salvation that involved the shedding of Christs blood for the forgiveness of sins.
Are you admitting to two different gospels? The "pre-crucifixion" and the "gospel of salvation"?
The mentioning of that woman is only necessary when people preach the gospel of the kingdom, but that is not the primary directive of Christians before Christ ascended.
Yes it was, the Gospel of the Kingdom is what needed to be preached, even before Paul wrote a single letter, the Gospel of the Kingdom is what is to be preached to all nations, then shall the end come:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

There is no other Gospel, they were preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom even before Paul wrote a single letter.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Are you admitting to two different gospels? The "pre-crucifixion" and the "gospel of salvation"?


Yes it was, the Gospel of the Kingdom is what needed to be preached, even before Paul wrote a single letter, the Gospel of the Kingdom is what is to be preached to all nations, then shall the end come:

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

There is no other Gospel, they were preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom even before Paul wrote a single letter.
The gospel of the kingdom is a foreshadowing of the prophesied millennial kingdom. The gospel of salvation is different.

This is the gospel Paul preached and it’s relevant to salvation:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Still think Christ and Paul preached the same gospel?
 
Mar 12, 2022
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Still think Christ and Paul preached the same gospel?
They didn't, I know, Now which Gospel will you believe? The witness of men, or the Witness of God?

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Who has Eternal Life to give?

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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They didn't, I know, Now which Gospel will you believe? The witness of men, or the Witness of God?

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Who has Eternal Life to give?

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
This isn’t a trick question. Just be honest with yourself and compare what Jesus said and what Paul said. It isn’t a problem that they preached different things. The crucifixion and Jesus’ blood sacrifice were only applicable post-crucifixion, hence why Jesus didn’t mention the gospel that Paul mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Jesus gave clear instructions to His apostles, including Peter who was an apostle to the Jews, about preaching His crucifixion. The gospel of the kingdom isn’t the gospel of salvation.

You’re free to study this instead of ignorantly and obstinately rejecting it.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Both lead lead us to the infilling and resulting guidance from the Holy Spirit who will guide us in ALL truth.
best wishes
Yes, Jesus leads us in how to live the truth, Paul leads us in truthful doctrines.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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Both direct us to Holy Spirit infilling who will lead us in all truth that we will not mistake leaning on our own understanding. The misguided attempts that surround us and are called "churches" by many or most, is the result of this error.
We have problems on this earth because of this and other practices where we have erred, they are never from His realm.
best wishes
 
Feb 24, 2022
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Yes, Jesus leads us in how to live the truth, Paul leads us in truthful doctrines.
My favorite part in the whole bible is the parables, they are so simple, based on daily life at the time that all of Jesus's audience can related to, and yet they're so rich in theology, prophesy and astounding truth.

Just take the parable of the pharisee and tax collector for instance, when the tax collector stood afar from the temple with his gaze downcast, that's the chasm between man and God and the guilty conscience inside; when he prayed, he didn't list any of his own work before God like the Pharisee did, either good or bad, he was keenly aware that he was a sinner who deserved nothing but the wrath of God, therefore he prayed for nothing but mercy. And the result? he went home justified - by Christ who had bridge that chasm. All who seek God can now come to God through Jesus. I couldn't understand such theologies if I just read Romans, but I understand this parable, and through this parable I get to understand the theologies.
 
Mar 12, 2022
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No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
The priests indeed receive such offering as reconciliation of the worshippers for the trespasses against the law of Moses, but for sins against the Law of God there can be no remission, save by repentance and amendment.

1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

-Blood Sacrifice is leaven from the pharisees:

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Ezekiel 5:6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

-Corruption of the covenant of Levi:

Malachi 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

-Blood Sacrifice is not what our Father in Heaven wants:

Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

-Blood Sacrifice was not commanded by our Father:

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

-Blood sacrifice is "of fools" and evil:

Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

-Blood sacrifice is an abomination:

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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And that is why there is trouble in the world He gave us dominion over, most would rather talk ABOUT His Word than with Him and hear what He has for us to do and walk it out.
best wishes(y):unsure::):coffee:
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,272
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No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
The priests indeed receive such offering as reconciliation of the worshippers for the trespasses against the law of Moses, but for sins against the Law of God there can be no remission, save by repentance and amendment.

1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

-Blood Sacrifice is leaven from the pharisees:

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Ezekiel 5:6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

-Corruption of the covenant of Levi:

Malachi 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

-Blood Sacrifice is not what our Father in Heaven wants:

Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

-Blood Sacrifice was not commanded by our Father:

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

-Blood sacrifice is "of fools" and evil:

Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

-Blood sacrifice is an abomination:

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
“Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:”

Amen He spoke the Ten Commandments and immediately this happened

“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness?

Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon. ….who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:41-43, 53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He gave them over to angels and the angels gave them patterns ofnthe true thkngs Christ would later accomplish and bring forth

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭


“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The old law is a pattern of the true things

“But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

….then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:3, 9-10‬ ‭

“but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:24‬ ‭

“elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
‭‭John‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
The priests indeed receive such offering as reconciliation of the worshippers for the trespasses against the law of Moses, but for sins against the Law of God there can be no remission, save by repentance and amendment.

1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

-Blood Sacrifice is leaven from the pharisees:

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Ezekiel 5:6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

-Corruption of the covenant of Levi:

Malachi 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

-Blood Sacrifice is not what our Father in Heaven wants:

Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

-Blood Sacrifice was not commanded by our Father:

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

-Blood sacrifice is "of fools" and evil:

Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

-Blood sacrifice is an abomination:

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
Your premise is false and your continual citing of non-scriptural sources will be rejected.

Are you aware that you are quoting from a book called “The Gospel of the Holy Twelve?”