Do we stress baptism enough?

I'm sure you're saying something very profound; unfortunately profundity isn't my strong suit.

Why do you have to be so difficult? To have a photo of Jesus as your avatar, and yet you're so difficult to deal with . . . it's just sad.

Just think how I'd be if I didn't have a picture of Jesus to remind me to behave.

Now see, you can speak plain English when you want to. Why not make a habit of it?

No verse should be taken in isolation. Yes it does appear from the order of words in this verse that baptism is necessary for the remission of sins. And if we stopped right there and failed to take the total Gospel message into account we would conclude that that is the case. But is it? Not if you take other Scriptures into account.

THE WORDS OF CHRIST IN LUKE 24 DO NOT INCLUDE BAPTISM
Jesus said: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Lk 24:47) It is both logical and spiritually sound to believe that it is repentance which leads to the remission of sins. The narrative of Zacchaeus confirms this. When he repented of his sins Christ said that salvation had come to his house. Also, when we go all the way back to the book of Jonah we see the connection between repentance and remission of sins.

THE WORDS OF PETER IN ACTS 3 DO NOT INCLUDED BAPTISM
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (Acts 3:19) Here Peter includes the necessity of both repentance and conversion in order for sins to be blotted out. Which is what the remission of sins means.

THE WORDS OF PAUL IN ACTS 20 DO NOT INCLUDE BAPTISM
And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20,21) Indeed Paul stated elsewhere that he was not sent to baptize but to preach the Gospel. Had baptism been necessary for the remission of sins he could not have said that.

So the purpose of water baptism, as already mentioned, is the full identification of the believer with the death. burial, and resurrection of Christ. There are also other aspects of baptism which are just as important, but we can discuss those separately. But we should not mislead people into thinking that baptism washes away sins. And here we have the example of the repentant thief on the cross, who died shortly after his confession of faith.

So why did Peter juxtapose baptism with both the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost? Because in his mind's eye the one who repents and believes is baptized immediately or almost immediately. And that is the pattern which we find in Acts.

It sure is . . . and no one has ever equated it to the "salvation" of Christ until I read your post.

@Amanuensis can laugh all he wants, but here is the first definition of "salvation" in an online dictionary:

"preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss."

Living [in] the world, I assumed that "salvation" from "their" perspective was per the definition above. Good grief.

Dear friend. They are very much still a faith based organization.

On their website about what they believe they state:
Repentance toward God, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, and regeneration by the Holy Spirit are necessary to salvation https://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/what-we-believe/

It was started by William Booth. He was a holy man of God and an awesome street preacher. He used to take a wagon and pick up drunks sleeping on the streets who had passed out the night before from whiskey to take them to their center where they would try and preach to them and get them to receive Christ. Sometimes people would jump off the wagon before they got to the center to go try to get more whiskey because their heads hurt so bad from the hang over they were suffering. And thus the phrase "falling off the wagon" was born.

Look up some of William Booth's sermons. I think you would like them. He certainly understood salvation.

The Salvation Army has adult rehab centers that are a 6 month program that preaches Christ and the Gospel to get people free from addictions. They make money from their stores to support these centers. They staff the centers with evangelical ministers of the Gospel many of which are pastors. It is common to have these ministers from Baptist, Methodist, and Assemblies of God all in the same center working together preaching the same Gospel message and it is a beautiful example of one area where denominational ministers are working together without letting their difference get in the way. These ministers work as counselors as well. The men and women enrolled in these programs are being counseled by ministers of the Gospel telling the what the Word of God says and not secular solutions.
They are very much still Faith Based and have not moved away from their roots. There is one in Dallas that is a great example.

I'm nearly fifty-five, love shopping thrift stores and have been inside of SA many, many times. The SA has been around for as long as I can remember and not once have I ever seen anything other than the name "Salvation" that would equate the organization to Christ. The workers don't appear to be Christian . . . at all. I have never heard them reference Faith.

I appreciate the info.

The Thrift stores are just where they sell the donated goods. Their ministry happens at the adult rehab centers. The volunteers that work at the thrift stores are usually people on probation doing community service for minor crimes. \

Salvation Army Thrift Stores is one of the community options on a list the courts provide to serve community hours.

At the stores there might be a few Salvation Army rehab program Graduates that were given jobs after they graduated and are getting paid. Maybe one who is getting paid fulltime.
The truck drivers are often graduates given jobs. Many of them will tell you about their conversion to Christ if you can catch them between loads. The stores are not the ministry or purpose of Salvation Army. It's just where they make money to support their ministry.

There are many faith based drug and alcohol residency ministries that have thrift stores to help bring in a little money. They don't bring in that much. Maybe $4000 a month unless it is some really big operation. These ministries get much more from cash donations as does the Salvation Army.

Some of these Salvation Army residency centers also do a car auction once a month. People donate cars to them and they auction them off to make money for the needs of the residency center. You can find really good deals there because they start the auctions at $200 and sometimes there are only 30 people there to bid and more than 30 cars to bid on and some of those cars only get one or two bids and sell. You can get a perfectly good used car for $500.

But the car auction is not the ministry, the thrift store is not the ministry, the adult residency program is the ministry.

Even though they are very much faith based I would still recommend Adult and Teen Challenge residency centers over Salvation Army. ATC is much more serious about keeping it about surrender to Christ and being filled with the Holy Spirit. They don't tolerate much worldliness or compromise. They have the greatest success rate of all faith based rehabs. Success rate meaning still clean and sober 10 years after graduation. They are a year long residency program and if someone is not serious about living 100 percent for Jesus they won't like it. ATC is more like a bible school, church, ministry training program than it is a rehab.

I appreciate all that you've written. As one who aspires to be a pastor, I'm sure that you can understand why I am amazed that in all of the decades that I've attended church, been a part of a worship team, listened to online sermons, tape sermons, CD sermons . . . why am I just now hearing about these things? It seems to me that "we" have missed an amazing opportunity to support the SA both by giving and through purchases. Then again, a part of me in NOT surprised, as I tried to rally a church behind the 2ndTimothyGroup concept and no one was interested in supporting those who are struggling. I was shocked.

Anyway, thanks again. I appreciate it.

Brilliant point. Being baptized immediately after the death of Christ was risky business. Men were leaving their families without a husband and father for turning against Judaism . . . and they knew the risks involved, but made that proclamation of Faith anyway.

I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that
there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and
in the same judgment. For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s
people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying,
“I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” Has Christ been divided?
Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank
God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you
were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that,
I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to
preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

Organizations like the Salvation Army don't even teach or practice baptism at all.

Hmmmmm

Perhaps you should start the "Water Baptism Army" then?

Holy Spirit Baptism is the Baptism that matters, and it comes at the moment of Salvation. Any other Baptism is merely a sacrament and remembrance pointing back to the original.

Yeah. This. I get in so many discussions about the "requirement" of baptism. The only true requirement is salvation. Period. You accept Christ and are saved, then you obey Him because you love Him, and in obedience, you choose water baptism as an outward sign of your belief...or not. It isn't going to save you any more to be baptized and it isn't going to save you any less not to be.

The Bible tells us that faith without works is dead and baptism is a work...and so many other things as well...so if one wants to be baptized as an expression of their faith, then that is great. I am not going to question a person's salvation just because they haven't been baptized in water. I am not going to make them question their salvation just because they haven't be baptized in water. Baptism is a good thing and I do recommend one does it, but you are still saved even if you don't.

I feel like this Scripture here is a huge testament to this truth, because if it was "required" in the realm of salvation, Paul wouldn't be relieved that he wasn't doing it and we don't know if Jesus Christ ever baptized anyone and I think that would've been the biggest point. We know His disciples did baptize people, but we also don't know if all of His disciples were baptized, although we know that Christ was baptized. I think that if it were needful to be an up front and center focus, the Bible would have clearly said that all the disciples were baptized and that Jesus made sure that everyone He interacted with was baptized. But, no, Jesus is concerned with the heart and, as I said, baptism is an outward "showing" of an inward devotion...and it really doesn't affect one's salvation one way or the other, except in the realm of works and feelings...primarily. Holy Spirit descended as a dove from Heaven when Jesus was baptized, but we receive Holy Spirit when we repent and accept Christ.

Sorry to see anyone reject God's commandments.

Please tell me what all these mean?;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Yeah. This. I get in so many discussions about the "requirement" of baptism. The only true requirement is salvation. Period. .......

.....The Bible tells us that faith without works is dead and baptism is a work.


Paul wouldn't be relieved that he wasn't doing it and we don't know if Jesus Christ ever baptized anyone and I think that would've been the biggest point.

We know His disciples did baptize people, but we also don't know if all of His disciples were baptized, although we know that Christ was baptized...and it really doesn't affect one's salvation one way or the other, except in the realm of works and feelings...primarily. Holy Spirit descended as a dove from Heaven when Jesus was baptized, but we receive Holy Spirit when we repent and accept Christ.

Are you suggesting that to date, no one has explained what these mean in terms of water baptism NOT being a requirement? Seems to me that we have gone over this two dozen times since I've joined a year ago.

The Bible...1611 edition KJV...does ..very clearly.
You can...show me ...one at a time.
Also, tell me what edition of the bible you use? ( I bet I can guess).

You are pitifully