If all the Bibles disappeared would there still be enough revelation to know Jesus?

It is quite an interesting question and one that has always intrigued me. God has worked in dreams, miracles, and visions where people had no access to a Bible, but I'm speaking of natural revelation. Is there enough natural revelation to make a case for Jesus?

In J Warner Wallace's new book Person Of Interest, as a former atheist and cold-case detective, he, before coming to faith, used his detective skills to examine the evidence surrounding the account of Jesus.

I am a few chapters into the book and wanted to share some of the info.

He begins by making the case in history. It is a known fact that such a change of world events occurred for history be divided as BC to AD. But what did the world experience leading up to AD? Why did Jesus enter the world when He did?

“The Roman Empire had unified much of the known world, adopted a popular language, provided a shared alphabet, established peace, constructed roads, developed the world’s best postal service, and embraced just enough religious tolerance to detonate an explosion.” Person of Interest

In each of these points, Wallace breaks down the historical importance of each topic. Concluding that Jesus came about in perfect timing for His message to be heard and shared.

The same idea to the concept of pagan mythology and the pantheon of gods and goddesses. Human history, no matter what region or belief system, the idea of worship, sacrifice, judgment, sin, atonement, miracles, etc., have all been seen in different attributes of the pagan gods throughout history. Here is the list given,

“Predicted by prophecy
Recognized the need for a sacrifice Born by unnatural means
Established a divine meal
Protected as an infant
Faced a trial
Faced temptation
Had the power to defeat death
Was associated with shepherds
Offered eternal life
Possessed supernatural power
Judge the living and the dead
Engaged and taught humans directly” —Person of Interest

Leading up to the time of Christ, humans had the internal expectation of God. The inner need to worship. The internal knowledge of sin. The desire to sacrifice and atone and the expectation for the God(s) to have these same types of attributes.

Fast forward, and you find that not only does Jesus have the exact attributes, but He also meets the 100s of prophetic guidelines for the Messiah in the monotheistic religion of Judaism.

Some skeptics point to this as to say Jesus is a copycat of ancient mythology. But this doesn't hold weight when examined. The pagan mythologies may have at a foundational level a shared sense of what to expect of a God or higher intelligence. Still, beyond that, the pantheon of gods varies in extreme differences.

We also have Jesus, who, if created by former Jews in Judaism, had to try and sell a Messiah of pagan attributes while also meeting all the 100s of prophetic predictions. This is beyond the scope of false Messiahs but in the probability realm of impossible to take root in the culture of Judaism.

Mythology best explains humanity's response to the inward programmed knowledge of the divine without having the complete revelation to know the one true God.

This changed historically when Jesus entered the scene of history. Eventually, changed the world as people began to understand the one true God.

Yes, INDEED, if there were no Bibles at all people would still know Jesus. Your knowledge is lacking. The Bible consists of the Old and New Testaments. And, for a fact, 300 years after Christ's ascension, there was no Bible. The canon of the Bible wasn't recognized until after 300AD. Furthermore, until the advent of the printing press, bibles were very scarce, hand copied by monks/monasteries and kept in safekeeping because they were so scarce. They weren't even available to the public. Even after the invention of the printing press in the 1500s, the Bible wasn't available to over 90% of people. Why? Because the vast majority of people weren't literate, couldn't read or write.

So, how was Jesus made known to so many Christians throughout the centuries, without the Bible? Because Jesus instructed His church to spread the Good News of the Gospel. Jesus didn't write a book but He left His Church to spread the Word. And they did, as St Paul said both orally and in writing.

The Bible wasn't available to most until the late 1800s, when most could read and write.

Interesting read to consider thanks for sharing.

It seems since Moses and I’m sure before also , Gods Will has been for man to write and record his words and works so that in the end , man couldnt distort what he said and did

but I’m not disagreeing with what you’ve written I think the Bible is a safeguard of truth because there are also many deceiving spirits which men witness distortions and lies meant to try to deceive others for gain and claim “ I hear from God so you need to listen and accept my witness “

the importance of scripture in my belief is like a safeguard against deception as it is also a witness of truth for us now to continue sharing which seems to be what then leads to revelation in the heart and mind

it’s interesting that God is the word and man was made in his image , and of creatures man is the only who hear , learn from , speak , understand words on the highest level words are sort of how mankind knows anything and communicates most thkngs

What you say is true. But keep in mind, from my previous post, the Bible was not available for common use until about 1800 years after Jesus ascended into heaven. For the first 300 years there was no compilation of the books of the Bible, until the advent of the printing press bibles were hand copied and vary scarce, and until after the 1800s about 90% of all people were illiterate. So, it fell upon Jesus' Church to spread the word of the Gospel. Jesus left a Church to spread the Good News of the Gospel, Jesus didn't leave/write a book. Examine the history of the Bible and how it came to us. It didn't just fall out of the sky and the Bible is God's word. But the Bible wasn't available to the general public until late in history, the last 200 years, 1800 years after Jesus ascended. St Paul told us to heed all that he and the Church taught orally and in writing. And there wouldn't even be a Bible for another 300 years.

I believe that all that is written in the Bible is God's Word, the Truth. But no where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the sole authority for God's truth.

If not the sole authority then what else has the authority for truth?

Interesting indeed, it is by no mistake humans were made to understand God.

If all the Bibles disappeared would there still be enough revelation to know Jesus?




Yes, because...

Romans
1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

We must remember that Jesus is the Creator as well as our Saviour. He and The Father are One, and always have been.

All truth is God's truth. All truth is authoritative. The Bible is not a source of all truth, but the truths we most desperately need.

Namely, Jesus Christ.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Psa_119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If a church changes the word of God... Should we follow them because they claim to be Gods church, or should we follow the Bible?

my study of this has revealed that those that wanted to read the bible and tried to share the bible in the dark ages were persecuted and killed by the church.

The reason from history is because the church didn't want people to understand the truth.

Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): "We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."
Ruling of the Council of Tarragona of 1234 C.E.: "No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned..."
Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to "...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ's sentence." For this "heresy" Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council's decree "Wycliffe's bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River."
Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.

amen I believe what the Bible makes really clear is , what distinguishes other gods from the true God.

many religions believe in a God , a creator , a diety ect bit the Bible is a witness of the true and everlasting God. And also details the cause and result of mans fall from faith and grace in the beginning , into sin and death , mans plight in that fallen state , where they are certainly headed for if they continue on the path of sin and rejecting God , and most importantly his true and infallible plan of salvation of mankind from all those things

it would be hard for us to know anything of Gods Will without his words. We could now there is a God by seeing all he made , but we could never really know him without his word that is come through Christ Jesus

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true,

and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Rome the Bible is really really important to hear what’s in it and believe it’s true because it brings us tonthe knowledge of Jesus Christ the salvation and life of Mankind. Without it we would be like Muslims , Buddhists , or people who think all religions worship the same God and be left tommake up what we thought God was like rather than knowing him by faith in Jesus Christ

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

without the word of God we would all be claiming our own truth about God and I don’t think would even know about salvstion and eternal life but only death, and the natural things

the Bible is all about Jesus but holds the story also of mans plight in the world , and those salvstion from it

Amen , it being written and recorded is also really Important because of this

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

of we had no record of Gods word we could have no basis of faith and truth from God and it would lead here as men corrupted the message and spread those teachings

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭

Without the Bible God would be a matter of opinion and fantasy driven by the mknd and heart of men filled with lust , greed , pride and an unquenchable thirst for power like beasts.

it’s interesting wherever the Bible is rejected in the world they worship idols and gods they invent through tradition, showing deep in man there is an understanding that we are made to worship God.

You ask, what else has the authority for truth? Maybe you should study your Bible. Actually, in 1 Timothy Paul answers the question you ask, "If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth."

And, as I stated, there was no Bible for 300 years after Christ ascended, and for the next 1500 years Bibles were scarce ( hand copied) or useless because very few people could read or write.

The Holy Spirit.

Yes. It's in our design. Man's spirit is not a created thing. It is from God.

Doesn't answer my question. When you say authority I assume you mean by what means we gain God's revelation today.

1. Bible
2. Prayer (must not contradict the Bible)
3. Visions or dreams (must not contradict the Bible)
4. Natural revelation (awe and power of nature reveals God's design or power)
5. Through other Spirit filled Christians (must not contradict the Bible)
6. Moral law (law giver)
7. Sanctification (Holy Spirit working within)

Yes indeed but we are also told to test the spirit.

1 John 4:1 (ESV)
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

We test by making sure it aligns with God's Word.

This is true, it is by no mistake but mere design we have a written form of God's Word protected from war, disaster, and decay. If you have no Bible, God says in Romans chapter 1 and 2 that all are without excuse. No excuse because even God's natural revelation and moral law proclaim God. If we were to be without the Bible we would only revert to other pagan practices to satisfy the inner need to worship, atone, and find meaning.

We follow the Bible because that is the written Word of God. I don't believe it to be wrong to say the Bible is our sole authority because all other revelations must match the Word of God.