I AM PUZZLED AS TO THE BIBLE BEING THE SOLE AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD

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arthurfleminger

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#1
Aug 18, 2021
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#1
I once worked with a Korean fellow. Our conversation once turned to Christianity. I asked him if he were Christian. He said no and I asked why. He asked me how he could become a Christian since there were so many Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects and they all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith. He made a good point.

All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently? I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.

Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#2
May 3, 2018
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#2
Isaiah 6
9:And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

10:Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
 
A

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
#4
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
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#4
soberxp said:
Isaiah 6
9:And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

10:Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
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You speak about the Jews and the Old Testament, I'm speaking of today's Christians and both the Old and New Testament. Jesus came to make us one and give us the Spirit to lead to all truth. Yet, this hasn't happened. We all read the same Bible but can't agree on so many things. Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth". Like Pilate we all read the Bible but seem to have our own differring truths. And differing truths cannot be the TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#5
Jul 3, 2015
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#5
arthurfleminger said:
I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.
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It does happen, but it is rare.

arthurfleminger said:
Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects ... all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith.
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Not every denomination disagrees with other denominations on every single point.

There is also a great misunderstanding as to what constitutes a denomination.

Many throw some number such as 30,000 around, but that is completely wrong.
 
A

arthurfleminger

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#6
Aug 18, 2021
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#6
Magenta said:
It does happen, but it is rare.

Not every denomination disagrees with other denominations on every single point.

There is also a great misunderstanding as to what constitutes a denomination.

Many throw some number such as 30,000 around, but that is completely wrong.
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Actually, 30,000 denominations is a conservative number. Some place it much higher: HOW MANY CHURCHES AND DENOMINATIONS ARE THERE IN AMERICA AND THE WORLD? - The Complete Pilgrim - Religious Travel Sites
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#7
May 3, 2018
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#7
arthurfleminger said:
You speak about the Jews and the Old Testament, I'm speaking of today's Christians and both the Old and New Testament. Jesus came to make us one and give us the Spirit to lead to all truth. Yet, this hasn't happened. We all read the same Bible but can't agree on so many things. Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth". Like Pilate we all read the Bible but seem to have our own differring truths. And differing truths cannot be the TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I don't know why you think this sentence is only for the Jews at that time. This sentence is for Christians now, including the Jews at that time. I didn't quote Doctrine or tenet . That's the true meaning of this sentence in the Bible.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#8
Jul 3, 2015
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#8
arthurfleminger said:
Actually, 30,000 denominations is a conservative number. Some place it much higher: HOW MANY CHURCHES AND DENOMINATIONS ARE THERE IN AMERICA AND THE WORLD? - The Complete Pilgrim - Religious Travel Sites
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Repeating error in ignorance does not make it right. Even under the most liberal definition of what constitutes a denomination, there are nowhere close to 30,000 Protestant denominations. Many of these groups are merely subgroups of larger denominational groups such as Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, or Baptists.

Evangelical apologist Eric Svendsen exposes the falsehood of this fabrication. Briefly:

Svendsen shows that the source of this figure is the World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barrett; Oxford
University Press, 1982). Barrett cites a figure of 20,780 denominations. Still, not all of them are Protestants.
According to Barrett, Protestants account for 8,196 (and incidentally, Roman Catholics account for 223).

However, even this figure of eight thousand Protestant denominations is misleading, for Barrett defines
"distinct denominations" as any group that might have a slightly different emphasis than another group.
The distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices.

Barrett breaks down the Protestant bloc into twenty-one major "traditions" which are much closer to what we usually mean by the word "denominations." It is interesting that Roman Catholics are subdivided into sixteen such "traditions."

Svendsen concludes, "In short, Roman Catholic apologists have hurriedly, carelessly - and, as a result, irresponsibly - glanced at Barrett's work, found a large number (22,189), and arrived at all sorts of absurdities that Barrett never concluded." source
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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#9
Apr 21, 2021
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#9
"Let God be true but every man a liar."—Romans 3:4

Let me just say up front I do believe there has to be a standard against which doctrines are compared—that's God's inspired word, the Bible. If we stopped using it as the ultimate standard things would be even worse than they are now. At least as it is a sincere disciple can search His word himself or herself then decide for themself.

People twist the scriptures to suit their own desires, that's a given. But we have been warned. This calls for discernment.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#10
Jul 31, 2013
36,687
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#10
arthurfleminger said:
I once worked with a Korean fellow. Our conversation once turned to Christianity. I asked him if he were Christian. He said no and I asked why. He asked me how he could become a Christian since there were so many Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects and they all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith. He made a good point.

All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently? I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.

Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????
Click to expand...
it isn't that all knowledge of God is solely contained in scripture,
but we know/believe scripture is in fact the word of God
therefore if anyone claims to have revelation, and it contradicts scripture, we know that revelation is false.

often people complain about scripture being set above self-proclaimed prophecy because their private prophecies are falsified by scripture. people, in their vanity, often would very much like to be placed above the actual Word of God. that is called, "idolatry"
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#11
Jul 31, 2013
36,687
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#11
arthurfleminger said:
Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????
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so that who has been approved, and who has not been approved, may be made manifest.

((Romans 3:22, 8:19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4; 1 Corinthians 11:19))
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#12
#12
arthurfleminger said:
I once worked with a Korean fellow. Our conversation once turned to Christianity. I asked him if he were Christian. He said no and I asked why. He asked me how he could become a Christian since there were so many Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects and they all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith. He made a good point.

All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently? I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.

Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????
Click to expand...

Well CC is the last place I would look for harmony. lol Too many dogmatic people that are dead set against anyone who doesn't believe exactly and I mean exactly what they believe, to the letter. But really denominations are not like that. I attend a church with different denominations represented, yet we all have wonderful fellowship and commune together. When it comes to most denominations it's more a matter of how they govern their church than Scriptural differences. Wesleyan, Nazarene, Baptist (free will), Pentecostals, Methodists, Salvation Army, I know there are more that I'm missing, believe the main message of the Gospel. They all agree on how a sinner is saved. They believe Christ died for our sins and rose again and is coming back. They all agree on salvic issues. The issues that count the most. There may be small differences outside that. But mainly they agree. So when you consider that, then all those denominations aren't so different.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#13
Jul 31, 2013
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#13
arthurfleminger said:
You speak about the Jews and the Old Testament, I'm speaking of today's Christians and both the Old and New Testament. Jesus came to make us one and give us the Spirit to lead to all truth. Yet, this hasn't happened. We all read the same Bible but can't agree on so many things. Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth". Like Pilate we all read the Bible but seem to have our own differring truths. And differing truths cannot be the TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
early Christian tradition is that Pilate was/became a believer. there is even an apocryphal ancient book of the 'Acts of Pilate' ((link: https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/actspilate.html))
scripture records Pilate over and over and over declaring Christ's innocence and doing everything in his power as a legate to persuade the people to spare His life. the Bible does not condemn Pilate; it commends him. to two Gentiles in all of the NT, Christ openly reveals Himself as Messiah: the woman at the well, and Pilate.

secular Roman history records that he was relieved of his duties without explanation. his wife was directly related to the emperor, so it is fairly odd for a man of such a position and relationship with the throne to simply disappear from governmental history as he did. the fact ((if it is indeed a fact)) of his conversion to Christianity upon meeting Christ in person would completely explain the anomaly.


__________________________________________________:unsure:
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#14
Jun 30, 2015
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#14
arthurfleminger said:
I once worked with a Korean fellow. Our conversation once turned to Christianity. I asked him if he were Christian. He said no and I asked why. He asked me how he could become a Christian since there were so many Christian Churches/Denominations/Sects and they all disagreed with each other about the tenets of their Christian faith. He made a good point.
Click to expand...
No, he made a point that you hadn't considered and for which you had no adequate response.

There are roughly 7.5 billion people on earth, yet unless they have no other choice, no two people groups eat exactly the same foods. How can food be any good if not even two people can agree on what to eat? We were given brains so we can think for ourselves, and the ability to communicate so we can learn from others. We are given the responsibility to read Scripture for ourselves and act on it. The instruction we receive on how to do that varies considerably.

arthurfleminger said:
All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently? I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.
Click to expand...
Nor have you changed your mind, apparently, so either you have no moral ground for your complaint, or the ground you are using is one of self-righteousness. ;)

arthurfleminger said:
Seems that each of us has appointed ourselves, and not the Bible, as the authority on what the Bible says and teaches. Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????
Click to expand...
Are you sure it isn't happening? Is this board all the evidence you have? That's not even statistically significant.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#15
Jun 30, 2015
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#15
soberxp said:
I don't know why you think this sentence is only for the Jews at that time. This sentence is for Christians now, including the Jews at that time. I didn't quote Doctrine or tenet . That's the true meaning of this sentence in the Bible.
Click to expand...
Actually, Arthur made a valid criticism. You are interpreting the passage you quoted in isolation from its context. It was indeed written to ancient Israel, not to modern Christians. It is instructive for modern Christians, as a warning, but it was not directed at us nor should we read it as though it were.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#16
Jul 3, 2015
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#16
posthuman said:
early Christian tradition is that Pilate was/became a believer. there is even an apocryphal ancient book of the 'Acts of Pilate' ((link: https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/actspilate.html))
scripture records Pilate over and over and over declaring Christ's innocence and doing everything in his power as a legate to persuade the people to spare His life. the Bible does not condemn Pilate; it commends him. to two Gentiles in all of the NT, Christ openly reveals Himself as Messiah: the woman at the well, and Pilate.

secular Roman history records that he was relieved of his duties without explanation. his wife was directly related to the emperor, so it is fairly odd for a man of such a position and relationship with the throne to simply disappear from governmental history as he did. the fact ((if it is indeed a fact)) of his conversion to Christianity upon meeting Christ in person would completely explain the anomaly.

__________________________________________________:unsure:
Click to expand...
Another consideration of note is something Jesus told Pilate which many seem unaware of to say all sin is the
same before God... because Jesus said to Pilate, "The one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#17
Jul 18, 2017
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#17
arthurfleminger said:
All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth. But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently?
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with the Bible being the sole authority as God's Word. It does have everything to do with the false beliefs and interpretations which are rampant. Genuine Christians are generally in agreement on the fundamentals of the faith. But since man-made doctrines have crept into the denominations, there are many interpretations. In any event, each individual must only give account for himself or herself.
 
SomeDisciple

SomeDisciple

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#18
Jul 4, 2021
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#18
arthurfleminger said:
All Christians look to the Bible as their source of God's word and truth.
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That's a true statement. All genuine Christians do- but there's always the wolves who knowingly read their preconceived ideas into the text in order to deceive and manipulate. Unfortunately, it's unavoidable.
arthurfleminger said:
But what good is that if all these Christians interpret the Bible and it's passages differently?
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The bible is essential. I'd rather have words of established truth and not agree with people about them- than not have any truth to disagree about.
arthurfleminger said:
I've been on this board for about a year and so many disagreements. And, after observing many/many posts on this board, with differing opinions, I've never yet to see one person change their mind about any doctrine or tenet from the Bible.
Click to expand...
There is the fact that people typically don't announce a change of mind when they do have one. A more conservative person will change their mind very slowly, and will fully process new information multiple times before doing so.
arthurfleminger said:
Jesus prayed that we all be one and promised to send the Spirit to lead us to all truth. That's surely not happening. Why so???????????
Click to expand...
Because not all people that claim or profess Christianity actually are. Put plainly- Some Christians are fake. Others are deceived, or ignorant. So it looks like there is a lot more disunity in the church than there actually is. It's like when an enemy puts on your uniform it looks like you are fighting yourself, when that is not really the case.
 
soberxp

soberxp

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#19
May 3, 2018
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#19
Dino246 said:
Actually, Arthur made a valid criticism. You are interpreting the passage you quoted in isolation from its context. It was indeed written to ancient Israel, not to modern Christians. It is instructive for modern Christians, as a warning, but it was not directed at us nor should we read it as though it were.
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Do you think you really opened your eyes and understood all the words of the Bible? Have you never realized that you are actually blind?

I tell you that I realized this. Am I an ancient Jew, not a modern Christian?
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#20
Jul 31, 2013
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#20
soberxp said:
Isaiah 6
9:And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

10:Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Click to expand...

((speaking of Israel))

don't leave out vv. 1-8 ;)
 
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