Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

Then you disagree with God's word.

Suggest a study of the Bible on baptism...it is required for sin cleansing;

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

many others.

Like all of God's commandments...it is mandatory.

Definitely agreed that water baptism is not about eternal salvation of the soul.

I'm seeing Mark 16:16 from a brand new perspective today:

Mark 16:16
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Belief and baptism = salvation of the soul and body
No belief = no salvation of the soul and body

Try John 3:5 now:

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

yes it’s a simple act of faith for the person Who believes Jesus does for thier sins. Thier response to this is to believe and get baptized into his death for sin

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4,

if we want remission of sins through Christ it’s laid out pretty simply.

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭

truthfully we need to hear and believe the simple truths and just act as if we believe them. Baptism becomes an argument but it really shouldn’t be one it’s actually a great blessing we share in.


It’s such a basic truth of doctrine it’s strange how things like baptism become a point of contention sad really when Christians can’t hardly agree on basics.

doctrine teaching these new age grace ideas are really corrupting a lot of basic simple easy to understand points of doctrine.

yes it’s a simple act of faith for the person Who believes Jesus does for thier sins. Thier response to this is to believe and get baptized into his death for sin

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4,

if we want remission of sins through Christ it’s laid out pretty simply.

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭

truthfully we need to hear and believe the simple truths and just act as if we believe them. Baptism becomes an argument but it really shouldn’t be one it’s actually a great blessing we share in.


It’s such a basic truth of doctrine it’s strange how things like baptism become a point of contention sad really when Christians can’t hardly agree on basics.

doctrine teaching these new age grace ideas are really corrupting a lot of basic simple easy to understand points of doctrine.

I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live

1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

After having discussed the order of the resurrection in the preceding verses, Paul immediately asked a question without directly giving the answer because it's a rhetorical question that the reader of the Bible is supposed to know the answer to. Often this verse is misinterpreted by LDS folk to mean that it's possible to perform a substitutionary water baptism for someone who has died, under the belief that water baptism is a prerequisite for eternal salvation; this part is false.

However, Paul asks these question in regards to the order of the resurrection of the righteous, not eternal salvation. Now I will give you the correct answers to Paul's rhetorical questions in plain English showing a few different Bible versions with it.

Question 1:
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? KJV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? NIV
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? ESV

Answer 1:
We can reverse engineer Paul's line of thinking here by questioning why they are getting immersed if there is no resurrection of the dead. There is a resurrection of the dead and in order to take part in the resurrection you must be water baptized. That's basically what Paul is suggesting here and I will provide numerous scriptures that support it later in this post.

Question 2:
why are they then baptized for the dead? KJV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? NIV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? ESV

Answer 2:
This question is similar to the first question and so is the answer. The answer is that people are attempting to help deceased people by performing a water baptism for them so that they can be resurrected. There is no evidence from scripture that a substitutionary posthumous water baptism is effective to qualify a dead person for a resurrection, but there is evidence that a water baptism can provide a living person a resurrection.

After we understand these vital clues about Paul's water baptism theology, we can more accurately understand what the purpose of water baptism is he preached everywhere he went. It isn't about eternal salvation of the soul as some people think; Paul meant that water baptism is literally about becoming eligible to have an immortal resurrected body.

Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:
Romans 6:4-5 KJV
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.

Again:
Colossians 2:12
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Again:
Galatians 3:27 KJV
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Once you understand that water baptism is about the righteous getting a resurrected body in the first resurrection, you'll understand why Paul often made water baptism less important than preaching the gospel. It is more important to save as many souls as possible with the Gospel of Christ than it is to get people into the first resurrection:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 KJV
14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

After having discussed the order of the resurrection in the preceding verses, Paul immediately asked a question without directly giving the answer because it's a rhetorical question that the reader of the Bible is supposed to know the answer to. Often this verse is misinterpreted by LDS folk to mean that it's possible to perform a substitutionary water baptism for someone who has died, under the belief that water baptism is a prerequisite for eternal salvation; this part is false.

However, Paul asks these question in regards to the order of the resurrection of the righteous, not eternal salvation. Now I will give you the correct answers to Paul's rhetorical questions in plain English showing a few different Bible versions with it.

Question 1:
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? KJV
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? NIV
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? ESV

Answer 1:
We can reverse engineer Paul's line of thinking here by questioning why they are getting immersed if there is no resurrection of the dead. There is a resurrection of the dead and in order to take part in the resurrection you must be water baptized. That's basically what Paul is suggesting here and I will provide numerous scriptures that support it later in this post.

Question 2:
why are they then baptized for the dead? KJV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? NIV
If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf? ESV

Answer 2:
This question is similar to the first question and so is the answer. The answer is that people are attempting to help deceased people by performing a water baptism for them so that they can be resurrected. There is no evidence from scripture that a substitutionary posthumous water baptism is effective to qualify a dead person for a resurrection, but there is evidence that a water baptism can provide a living person a resurrection.

After we understand these vital clues about Paul's water baptism theology, we can more accurately understand what the purpose of water baptism is he preached everywhere he went. It isn't about eternal salvation of the soul as some people think; Paul meant that water baptism is literally about becoming eligible to have an immortal resurrected body.

Paul is teaching that water baptism is literally necessary to have a resurrected body:
Romans 6:4-5 KJV
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.

Again:
Colossians 2:12
12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Again:
Galatians 3:27 KJV
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Once you understand that water baptism is about the righteous getting a resurrected body in the first resurrection, you'll understand why Paul often made water baptism less important than preaching the gospel. It is more important to save as many souls as possible with the Gospel of Christ than it is to get people into the first resurrection:

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 KJV
14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

What I said was fact. I simply stated what scripture portrays. What you say is speculation. Where does scripture say he was baptized, fell away, or Christ show special grace (whatever that means).

Matthew 3:11 ESV
“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The Holy Spirit baptism is where we find salvation. Repentance of sins or sacrificial ceremonial atonements was practiced all throughout the OT. It was only through faith where people were seen as righteous and not the works of the law. Faith in God moved them to follow the law. Faith in Christ is a permanent baptism of the Spirit. Water baptism is symbolic and for the outward confession of ones inner dedication.

I must have missed the part where Paul mentions "water".

yes it’s a simple act of faith for the person Who believes Jesus does for thier sins. Thier response to this is to believe and get baptized into his death for sin

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4,

if we want remission of sins through Christ it’s laid out pretty simply.

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭

truthfully we need to hear and believe the simple truths and just act as if we believe them. Baptism becomes an argument but it really shouldn’t be one it’s actually a great blessing we share in.


It’s such a basic truth of doctrine it’s strange how things like baptism become a point of contention sad really when Christians can’t hardly agree on basics.

doctrine teaching these new age grace ideas are really corrupting a lot of basic simple easy to understand points of doctrine.

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 KJV

Do you get it? "Though he were dead, yet shall he live" means that dead believers will be raised to life -- resurrection life. And that ties in with the fact that Christ Himself is our Resurrection and our Life. If you are in Christ, that is a sufficient guarantee that you will be a part of the first resurrection -- "resurrection of life". No mention of water baptism.

I stand corrected. I do think that
1 Corinthians 1:14-17 KJV
is speaking of water baptism.

I think he is trying to make them see that water baptism isn't the path to salvation, but the Gospel IS.

The idea that water baptism is necessary to qualify for receiving a glorified (resurrection) body is refuted by a single verse, which is in the same chapter.

1 Cor 15:23 very clearly teaches that ALL believers, not just water baptized believers, will received glorified bodies "when He comes". That means at the Second Advent. All believers, at the Second Advent.

This verse refutes your take on v.29. In fact, I haven't found any commentary that can explain v.29. Seems none of the scholars has figured out what Paul was referring to. And they admit it.

I find it interesting that you include 1 Cor 1:14-17 in your thread. Here, Paul, the greatest evangelist ever, emphasizes that he was sent to preach the gospel (power of God to salvation - Rom 1:16) and NOT to baptize.

There would need to be a very clearly worded verse that supports your claim about the necessity for water baptism to be in the resurrection.

And the question is begged; if a believer wasn't water baptized, would he/she ever receive a glorified body? If not, how can they enter the eternal city on the new earth?

Your thesis creates more questions than it answers.

Do you get it? "Though he were dead, yet shall he live" means that dead believers will be raised to life -- resurrection life. And that ties in with the fact that Christ Himself is our Resurrection and our Life. If you are in Christ, that is a sufficient guarantee that you will be a part of the first resurrection -- "resurrection of life". No mention of water baptism.

Totally agree with you. Okay, so what kind of baptism was Paul speaking about in Romans 6:4-5?

Romans 6:4-5 KJV
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.

To me verse 5 says the symbolism of water baptism actually guarantees we will raise in the resurrection. Of course this is highly interpretive, but this is my take on it.

I'm pretty sure those two verses are connected with the point Paul is making in the rest of that paragraph- and not the preceding one.

No offense but I am not going to play your game of pitting the Bible against itself in order to try to debunk other parts of it.

Paul was clear with his words about water baptism being necessary for the resurrection.

I suggest you try to find a way to harmonize the scriptures rather than pit verses against each other.

As Christians we shouldn't try to debunk or refute the parts of the Bible that we don't like.

I am sure that isn't what being a good steward of the Word is about.