You need both water baptism and the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.

Water baptism, since its establishment by John the Baptist (at God's commandment) is for remission of sins (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3). Remission means separation from; removal of; washing away of. The name of Jesus was added after Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:47) and being water baptized continued "in Jesus name" & "for the remission of sins" according to Acts 2:38.

The disciples (believers) were baptized in water throughout John's ministry (Mark 1:5) and throughout Jesus' ministry John 4:1-2 (at start of) & Matthew 28:19 (at end of) but that wasn't enough. Jesus didn't JUST come to die for your sins. The disciples (believers) were instructed to tarry (wait, continue, abide, stand fast) until they were endued with power from on high... wait for the Comforter... wait for the Holy Ghost... wait for the promise... wait to be baptized with the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit which was promised as surely as water baptism for remission of sins. (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5)

Both of these events (water baptism & Spirit baptism) are observable events. They are WITNESSES. They provide EVIDENCE.

Onlookers could tell when a person was baptized in water because the person was dunked, whelmed, fully wet.

Onlookers (informed onlookers) could tell when and/or IF someone got baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4, Acts 8:17-18, Acts 10:45-46, Acts 19:6). I left off the 'how' on this one because I'd rather you read it and struggle with the scriptures than struggle with me.

And I'll stop right there because Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts are basics of New Testament belief/salvation. In some senses I could have stopped at Acts 2 but wanted to include more than one example of the observability of spirit baptism.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Hey, Kelby.

A few things...

First of all, I agree with you that God's desire is that we all are water baptized and Spirit baptized.

In fact, this is part of "the principles of the doctrine of Christ":

Hebrews chapter 6

[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

"The doctrine of baptisms"...PLURAL.

I believe that we see God's desire for all to partake of both baptisms at least as far back as the exodus from Egypt.

In relation to the same, we read:

I Corinthians chapter 10

[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

Again, there are two baptisms here...one in the cloud, which I believe is a type of Holy Ghost baptism, and one in the sea, which is representative of water baptism.

This said, I wouldn't be so hasty to assume (as you've apparently done) that speaking in tongues is the mandatory outward sign of such a Holy Ghost baptism. Granted, there are examples of the same in the book of Acts, BUT we also need to strongly consider the following:

I Corinthians chapter 12

[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Here, we clearly see 9 different manifestations of the Spirit, and "diverse kinds of tongues" is only one of them.

Personally, I don't speak in tongues (I believe that this gift is still available, but I also heavily believe that much of what professes to be genuine tongues today is demonic in nature), but I have been used in "the word of knowledge", in the "discerning of spirits", and even in "the gifts of healing by the same Spirit" in the past.

In relation to tongues, Paul also asked and said this:

I Corinthians chapter 12

[30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
[31] But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

The correct answer to Paul's question "Do all speak with tongues?" is "no".

In fact, Paul not only went on to say that we should "covet earnestly the best gifts", but he named at least one "gift" which is better than the gift of speaking in tongues when he said:

I Corinthians chapter 14

[1] Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
[2] For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
[3] But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
[4] He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
[5] I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Anyhow, it's rather clear that not everyone spoke in tongues in Paul's day, so you shouldn't be seeking to impose the same requirement upon others in our day and age.

Again, as Paul plainly said in relation to the 9 different manifestations or gifts of the Spirit:

"But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." (I Corinthians 12:11)

The Holy Spirit gives different gifts to different people AS HE WILLS to do so.

Yes, we can covet earnestly the best gifts, but, again, the gift of speaking in tongues is NOT mandatory, nor is it even the best gift.

I once heard a preacher say that he was asked what is the true manifestation of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and I love what his answer was.

He said that the true manifestation of the baptism of the Holy Ghost is TROUBLE.

In other words, where as professing Christians regularly waste hours upon hours arguing over the gift of tongues, they've apparently missed the real PURPOSE of the baptism of the Holy Ghost which is as follows:

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. " (Acts 1:8)

How about we all stop worrying about the manifestation of receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost and we all start focusing on the PURPOSE of the same instead?

Namely this:

BEING WITNESSES FOR JESUS, EVEN UNTO THE UTTERMOST PART OF THE EARTH.

Can I get at least one "Amen"?

I won't be surprised if I don't.

Anyhow, TROUBLE definitely follows those who are true witnesses for Christ.

For some, it may just be rejection or harmless persecution.

For others, it may be imprisonment or even martyrdom.

It's much easier to argue on an online forum than it is to witness for Christ in public, but that is what we've actually been called to do.

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.

Actually one just needs the Holy Spirit...
Getting wet isn't a huge necessity...but it's always a very good idea.

"Priesthood of Every Believer" is the focus of this practice.
Under the Old Covenant a person could not ask God for the remission of their own sins. King Uziah tried and got leprosy for thinking he could do so. You needed a priest.

Now with the advent of the New Covenant the need isn't as clear. But I still recommend to do so.

Ephesians 4:5-6
Thank you for the inspiration

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The Bible says baptism of water does now save us.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

We are buried with Jesus into death which is water baptism for if we have been planted together with Him we shall also rise in the likeness of His resurrection.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

We have to identify with the man Christ Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection, which we do by repenting of our sins, being baptized in water, and receiving the Holy Spirit.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter preached repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Gentiles and Samaritans were baptized in the name Jesus and the people that were baptized by John had to be baptized in the name Jesus.

Some people say Peter preached that to the Jews but was not preached to Gentiles and Samaritans but the salvation plan of God is the same for all people.

aphesis
af'-es-is
From G863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon: - deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.

Water baptism is for remission of sins which remission is to forgive.

The Bible says there is no other name given under heaven whereby we are saved but the name Jesus.

All we do in word and deed is to be done in the name Jesus.

So why would we use Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in baptism and they are not names but titles, and it is name singular which the name is Jesus.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Water baptism is not to be part of a Church but it is part of the salvation plan of God for it is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and we must identify with the man Christ Jesus.

The Bible says if we are buried with Him in His likeness we shall rise to newness of life.

It is not the death, and resurrection of Christ, but it is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

I'm not sure what your intended point is here, but when Paul wrote of "one baptism" to the saints at Ephesus, he was NOT suggesting that there is literally only "one baptism", but rather talking about their commonality as far as entering into the previously mentioned "one faith" is concerned.

How can we know this for sure?

Well, just look at what transpired between Paul and certain believers at Ephesus:

Acts chapter 19

[1] And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
[2] He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[6] And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
[7] And all the men were about twelve.

Here, these disciples at Ephesus, who had previously only partaken of John's water baptism unto repentance, were water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

AFTER THIS, Paul laid his hands upon them, and the Holy Ghost came upon them (Holy Ghost baptism), and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.

Again, two distinct "baptisms"...plural.

I agree with all of the scriptures, even the scriptures that describe different types of baptisms, bringing the total number of baptisms to more than one. Maybe there are at least 4 different baptisms I can think of immediately. What is the "one baptism" that Ephesians 4:5,6 is talking about?

Thanks - Great Question!: ONE Baptism for today, vs 12 baptisms for the previous economy. But maybe this has already been discussed? Can't remember.

Paul wrote the truth

Only one baptism is important as only one saved.

Spirit baptizes us into Christ, Hid death his burial and his body

Water baptizes us into water.

they are different baptisms. But only one really matter as far as eternity goes.

water baptism is no more salvic that circumcision was.

Its baptism by the hand of God that matters. Not the one made by a sinner who needs saved himself.

iF you are saying that water baptism is necessary for salvation, then I strongly disagree. Water baptism has ZERO to do with a persons salvation.

Is it a witness to both the world and the Church that one has become a believer in and disciple of Jesus? Yes. But it has not one thing to do with a persons salvation.

Quite Interesting, is it not? For then we might will Suggest this, in
God's Context Of HIS Mystery And GRACE, for us today:

Eph 4:4 There is [not literally Only] One Body, and [not literally Only] One Spirit, even as ye are called in [not literally Only] One Hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 [not literally Only] ONE LORD, [not literally Only] One Faith,


Eph 4:6 [not literally Only] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. ???

q: What Would God Think of such suggestive treatment Of HIS Word Of Truth?

Of course, prayerful and Careful Consideration Of God's Previous
Context, in prophecy and the law, there are 12 baptisms, Correct?

GRACE And Peace...

If you feel...strongly...then show scriptures that baptism is not required.

I doubt the time you have spent in scriptures but, with your comment...explain what the Bible means here;


Baptism is Required

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10;47 ....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.


Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bib

I've already mentioned the context of what Paul said, and clearly shown that Paul himself demonstrated two different baptisms to believers at Ephesus...so you can play all of the word games that you'd like.

Hi Live4Him2,

I appreciate your reply and hope to read it more thoroughly tonight. On my brief reading this morning, the quoted section stood out most. I thought "Wow, this person actually read the scriptures that I'd referenced! That's commendable!" But I also realized there could be a different explanation. Would you be so kind as to clarify:


Thanks.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Off the top of my head, I don't recall ever reading any of your other posts (I could be mistaken), so it would be a combination of the latter (the scriptures you referenced) and just the way that conversations like this normally go.

If I was wrong in my own assumption, then I apologize, and I'll certainly consider your clarification of your own beliefs.

That said, Acts 8:17-18 doesn't specifically mention that they spoke in tongues. Granted, there was apparently some sort of outward manifestation that even Simon the sorcerer took note of, but it could have been something else (like prophesying, for example, as happened in Ephesus with Paul and certain believers).

And I'd agree that baptism isn't exactly salvific...but that doesn't mean that it should be avoided either.

Being baptized is about having a clean conscience to God. Today it isn't so much the public statement that it once was.

Every believer who is born again, has received the Holy Spirit, means is baptised with the Holy Spirit. Your examples from acts where one time events with the purpose to be a witness for the jews that there is no different anymore in the question how to be saved.

We (my church family) just had baptisms very recently. It is very public, being done in the ocean

Not in some far flung corner of the ocean, either

But at one of the "top 10 best city beaches in the world" according to international travel magazines