Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?

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seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#221
Dec 9, 2011
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#221
arthurfleminger said:
Nemiah, I agree with you 100, Jesus fulfills the Ten Commandments by taking them to a higher level, not abolishing them. See Jesus teaching on the commandments:
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I believe that there are the ten commandments to be obeyed or the two commandments that CHRIST gave but not both.Work Is Earned but Grace Is free.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#223
May 27, 2017
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#223
Magenta said:
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not
charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Romans 5:13
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Good verse but it does not apply here.
 
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peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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Magenta said:
Hebrews 10:4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" John 1:29b
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Wow...are you saying the sin repented under the OT with animal sacrifice did not have any way to receive repentance/forgiveness of sin?

To me Heb 10;4 has other meaning.
 
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peldom10

Banned
#227
May 22, 2020
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seed_time_harvest said:
I believe that there are the ten commandments to be obeyed or the two commandments that CHRIST gave but not both.Work Is Earned but Grace Is free.
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Why separate the 10 from all the rest.....general reference to commandments or?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#228
#228
Iconoclast said:
Both of you have no idea what you are talking about.
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She quoted the Bible directly. Does the Bible have no idea what it's talking about? Because that's how silly that comment sounds.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#229
May 27, 2017
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#229
kaylagrl said:
She quoted the Bible directly. Does the Bible have no idea what it's talking about? Because that's how silly that comment sounds.
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I can quote any random bible verse but that does not answer the question.
Ate you a young child?
 
Goliath

Goliath

Banned
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Oct 6, 2021
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Magenta said:
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not
charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Romans 5:13
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Thank you, that's much easier for me to understand.
Sometimes we can see a verse at a different angle than someone else, which is why the church is so divided today. And I was trying to see the angle you view it. You believe the Christian, has a type of diplomatic immunity, whereas those who don't accept Jesus Christ....are still under the Law?

BTW...love the way you format your posts
 
Goliath

Goliath

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Oct 6, 2021
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#231
Hazelelponi said:
But who is running around teaching we are devoid of any responsibility towards God? I've never seen, neither as a Christian nor as a non-Christian, anyone say that we can do anything whatsoever and still get to heaven...

And that thought process seems to be the point of the thread, that there's Christians somewhere who think they can fornicate their way into heaven and I've never seen anything like that ever suggested
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Magenta believes it...and many others....and one is too many for me.
Hazel, There are only two ways of looking the teaching...We are not under Law...We are under Grace.
One is..Paul is saying we are no longer under the Old Covenant Law of Moses, we are under the New Covenant Law of Christ...as I teach it.
Two..Those who believe Jesus is the Son of God, are saved and sin doesn't count against them.
If there is no penalty for sin...Why wouldn't they continue to do as they want?

I watched William Shatner interview a Porn Actress one time, and she claimed to be a born again Christian. He was shocked, as I would imagine many Christians folks were, but according to most Christian teachings today...she was right!

Some even raise their children, the way they believe God raises his children. They set down rules for them to follow, rules without any consequences when broken. And these same parents are dumbfounded as to why their children break their rules. God is wise, and being wise...he would never raise a child in this manner.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#233
Apr 7, 2014
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#233
Churches either teach, "Lord, Lord, didn't WE (false religions) or "Lord, Lord, didn't YOU (Christian churches)
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
#234
Jul 8, 2019
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#234
Goliath said:
Magenta believes it...and many others....and one is too many for me.
Hazel, There are only two ways of looking the teaching...We are not under Law...We are under Grace.
One is..Paul is saying we are no longer under the Old Covenant Law of Moses, we are under the New Covenant Law of Christ...as I teach it.
Two..Those who believe Jesus is the Son of God, are saved and sin doesn't count against them.
If there is no penalty for sin...Why wouldn't they continue to do as they want?

I watched William Shatner interview a Porn Actress one time, and she claimed to be a born again Christian. He was shocked, as I would imagine many Christians folks were, but according to most Christian teachings today...she was right!

Some even raise their children, the way they believe God raises his children. They set down rules for them to follow, rules without any consequences when broken. And these same parents are dumbfounded as to why their children break their rules. God is wise, and being wise...he would never raise a child in this manner.
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Okay, continue on then... I didn't know and I'm sorry for that.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#235
Jul 3, 2015
56,322
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#235
Goliath said:
Thank you, that's much easier for me to understand.
Sometimes we can see a verse at a different angle than someone else, which is why the church is so divided today. And I was trying to see the angle you view it. You believe the Christian, has a type of diplomatic immunity, whereas those who don't accept Jesus Christ....are still under the Law?

BTW...love the way you format your posts
Click to expand...
Thank you. Diplomatic immunity, ha, that is an interesting way of saying there is now no
condemnation for those in Christ Jesus :D Yes; as opposed to believing the law was done
away, I believe it remains to condemn those not covered by Jesus' shed righteous blood.
 
Carry_Your_Name

Carry_Your_Name

Banned
#236
Feb 24, 2022
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#236
Goliath said:
Magenta believes it...and many others....and one is too many for me.
Hazel, There are only two ways of looking the teaching...We are not under Law...We are under Grace.
One is..Paul is saying we are no longer under the Old Covenant Law of Moses, we are under the New Covenant Law of Christ...as I teach it.
Two..Those who believe Jesus is the Son of God, are saved and sin doesn't count against them.
If there is no penalty for sin...Why wouldn't they continue to do as they want?

I watched William Shatner interview a Porn Actress one time, and she claimed to be a born again Christian. He was shocked, as I would imagine many Christians folks were, but according to most Christian teachings today...she was right!

Some even raise their children, the way they believe God raises his children. They set down rules for them to follow, rules without any consequences when broken. And these same parents are dumbfounded as to why their children break their rules. God is wise, and being wise...he would never raise a child in this manner.
Click to expand...
All things are lawful, but not all things are beneficial.
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#237
Sep 6, 2014
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#237
To be clear, the law is known to man as it is written on his conscience. Even to those who lived before the law was given at Sinai.
Romans 2:15

Those who are assuming others here who live by the law of faith are teaching others to break the law given at Sinai is wrong to say the least.
Romans 6:1-2,15

Galatians 3:21-25
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
 
Goliath

Goliath

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#238
Oct 6, 2021
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#238
Magenta said:
Thank you. Diplomatic immunity, ha, that is an interesting way of saying there is now no
condemnation for those in Christ Jesus :D Yes; as opposed to believing the law was done
away, I believe it remains to condemn those not covered by Jesus' shed righteous blood.
Click to expand...
Jude called it...
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
(Jude 1:4)
 
G

Grandpa

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#239
Jun 24, 2011
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#239
Nehemiah6 said:
That is incorrect. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus actually taught the proper, higher, and spiritual meaning of the Ten Commandments. And when the apostles spoke of the Law of Christ and the Law of Love, that included the Ten Commandments. The difference between the Old and New Covenants is that in the former the commandments were written on tablets of stone, and in the latter they are written on hearts and minds.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb 10:15-17)
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That's not exactly true, is it?

Is the Law to rest on saturdays written on the Christians heart?

No. Otherwise we would all feel the need inside of our consciences to rest every saturday. And also the scripture that says to not let anyone judge you based on a sabbath day would be wrong as well. It would show that anyone NOT resting on Saturdays, as prescribed in Moses Law, was not a true Christian.

If it were the same law that is written on our hearts and minds as what is written in the 10 commandments then it could NEVER be said that we are not under the Law. We would be even MORE under the Mosaic Law if it were written on our hearts and minds.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#240
Jul 18, 2017
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#240
Grandpa said:
Is the Law to rest on saturdays written on the Christians heart?
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The 7th day Sabbath was for Israel. "The Lord's Day" (the eighth day) is for Christians (Rev 1:10). But the principle remains the same. It is a day set apart for worship, rest, and good works.
 
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