Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?

[peldom10]

I didn't say it was different. I said no one can keep the law perfectly. That is why there was animal sacrifice. It covered sin, but it did not take it away. But Jesus came and fulfilled the law. He is the sacrifice, we no longer kill animals for their blood. His blood washes away sin, it doesn't simply "cover" it.

If you are suggesting ....that under the OT......animal sacrifice just..."covered"...sin, How did you reach that conclusion in contrast to sin repentance/forgiveness under the NT? Why wouldn't animal sacrifice under the OT do the same...or are you saying that.

What is the difference in .."covered sin"....and...sin repentance/forgiveness?

 

[kaylagrl]

If you are suggesting ....that under the OT......animal sacrifice just..."covered"...sin, How did you reach that conclusion in contrast to sin repentance/forgiveness under the NT? Why wouldn't animal sacrifice under the OT do the same...or are you saying that.

What is the difference in .."covered sin"....and...sin repentance/forgiveness?

I'll try this again... in the OT sin was covered, but in the NT is it washed away. We don't need to provide a sacrifice, it has been provided. OT blood of a goat could not do that, Jesus blood does.

 

[kaylagrl]

The commandments does not prevent someone from sinning...but, Christs' sacrifice on the cross.... created grace......under which we may obtain forgiveness by repentance.
Leave .....perfection out.......we know that .......the Bible tells us so and is the reason God gave us unlimited times for forgiveness of sin. Even though it must be our objective .

It seems you have another thought in your summary...define it for us.

The Bible says no man can keep the law perfectly. That is why Christ came. He's the sacrifice. Where is the misunderstanding, it's simple.

 

[peldom10]

The Bible says no man can keep the law perfectly. That is why Christ came. He's the sacrifice. Where is the misunderstanding, it's simple.

Not concerned with that point......not my question... I question the difference between sin handling under animal sacrifice OT and sin handling under grace...NT?...as posed in you prior post.

 

[kaylagrl]

Not concerned with that point......not my question... I question the difference between sin handling under animal sacrifice OT and sin handling under grace...NT?...as posed in you prior post.

Early here, you may have to put more of a fine point on it...

 

[peldom10]

Early here, you may have to put more of a fine point on it...

Understand.... we never know location.....sorry.

Your post #138.....cover vs forgiveness element. Detail your thought there..for clarity.
Not sure I get your point.

 

[Magenta]

Understand.... we never know location.....sorry.

Your post #138.....cover vs forgiveness element. Detail your thought there..for clarity.
Not sure I get your point.

Hebrews 10:4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" John 1:29b

 

[kaylagrl]

Hebrews 10:4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" John 1:29b

Once again, thank you sister. That verse just came to mind. You put it perfectly.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Of course I know about this, can you tell me pray what the others that were with paul in the desert heard or see?

Blessings,

JF

Precious friend, while Paul met Jesus, the others?:

Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood
speechless, hearing A Voice, but seeing no man.

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Jesusfollower]

Precious friend, while Paul met Jesus, the others?:

Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood
speechless, hearing A Voice, but seeing no man.

GRACE And Peace...

Hello Grace,

Yes some heard a voice but no one saw, anything but paul he was the only witness. Now can you tell me what paul added to the scriptures that Jesus son of GOD had not already thought us?

Blessings,

JF

 

[Goliath]

Hebrews 10:4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Great verse...But do you know what it means by..Take Away Sin?

 

[Jesusfollower]

Great verse...But do you know what it means by..Take Away Sin?

come on, do not be insulting, of course she knows and will let you know.

JF

 

[seed_time_harvest]

As far as Gods Grace...Jesus clearly tells us in (John 14:21)...Gods Grace is upon those who keep his commandments. Unless you define Grace differently than the Lord did. If you can, show me your definition in the Lords Gospel.

When you say “If you love me keep my commandments“ would that be the Ten Commandments under law or the Two Commandments under grace?

Under law no one could keep the Ten Commandments so then some might say that since the same GOD that spoke In the Old Testament Is the same GOD that speaks In the New Testament and since GOD IS the same yesterday and forever and doesn’t change we should keep trying to keep the law even If we know that GOD doesn’t accept Imperfection?

BTW,the Ten Commandments were given by Moses under the Old covenant to the children of Israel,It was not what JESUS taught the apostles to teach.

 

[Magenta]

Great verse...But do you know what it means by..Take Away Sin?

Sin is transgression of the law, and transgression of the law leads to death.

As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us. Psalm 103:12

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:2‬

 

[Hazelelponi]

When you say “If you love me keep my commandments“ would that be the Ten Commandments under law or the Two Commandments under grace?

Under law no one could keep the Ten Commandments so then some might say that since the same GOD that spoke In the Old Testament Is the same GOD that speaks In the New Testament and since GOD IS the same yesterday and forever and doesn’t change we should keep trying to keep the law even If we know that GOD doesn’t accept Imperfection?

BTW,the Ten Commandments were given by Moses under the Old covenant to the children of Israel,It was not what JESUS taught the apostles to teach.

When we stand before God (as Christians) we stand in the righteousness of Christ and not our own righteousness. We are "covered" in the blood such that His righteousness becomes our own, and our unrighteousness simply ceases to exist as we are translated into glory and put on that which is incorruption.

The difference between this and the blood of bulls etc is that this is permanent and incorrupt. The animal sacrifices were temporary and specific, but deals not at all with the permanent and unspecified.

 

[Grandpa]

Brother I appreciate your concern..I really do.
But what about that Law, the one God has put you under?
We can use words to deflect the Truth, but when it's written on your heart...Not so easy to ignore..Is it?
You know the one, the one you have fought against....since the day you received the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Paul had to deal with it, and so do we. The most beautiful thing about Pauls epistles...is His testimony.
Notice in (Romans 7) what caused his death to sin. It was the Law.

As far as Gods Grace...Jesus clearly tells us in (John 14:21)...Gods Grace is upon those who keep his commandments. Unless you define Grace differently than the Lord did. If you can, show me your definition in the Lords Gospel.

You still don't understand Paul. The Law wasn't the cause of Paul being dead to sin. The Law was the cause of Paul seeing his death. And in seeking Life there was only ONE solution. The Lord Jesus Christ.

God hasn't put me UNDER a Law. In my own stupidity and unbelief I sometimes place myself back under the curse(Galatians 3:10). Temporarily, until I do what comes natural to the Christian. I remember I can do nothing without Christ. So I come to Christ and ask for His Strength and Wisdom.

God has given me the GIFT of the Holy Spirit. Which is the Way of Life and Gods Blessings.

It is this Holy Spirit that is the cause of ANY and ALL obedience to God.


Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

 

[Grandpa]

Well that true, and explains why so many pastors run off with their secretaries, but not before they kill her husband and his wife. Today many Christians see themselves as not being under Gods Laws. Again..not talking about the Law of Moses, but the Law God has put into your heart.

In an attempt to wake you all up...I want to point out the elephant in the room.
That being, if you are not under the Law...You have no Law...and if you have no Law...you are called Lawless in the Bible.
And Paul, has a scary prophecy for you to read.
But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for those who defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine
(1 Timothy 1:8-10)

Being under the Law doesn't mean you are not Lawless.

Obedience to God is what determines whether a person is Lawless or not. Not what Laws a person IMAGINES they keep.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

You still don't understand Paul. The Law wasn't the cause of Paul being dead to sin. The Law was the cause of Paul seeing his death. And in seeking Life there was only ONE solution. The Lord Jesus Christ.

God hasn't put me UNDER a Law. In my own stupidity and unbelief I sometimes place myself back under the curse(Galatians 3:10). Temporarily, until I do what comes natural to the Christian. I remember I can do nothing without Christ. So I come to Christ and ask for His Strength and Wisdom.

God has given me the GIFT of the Holy Spirit. Which is the Way of Life and Gods Blessings.

It is this Holy Spirit that is the cause of ANY and ALL obedience to God.


Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

Amen.

John 8:32
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:1-5
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

 

[Hazelelponi]

...

Well that true, and explains why so many pastors run off with their secretaries, but not before they kill her husband and his wife. Today many Christians see themselves as not being under Gods Laws. Again..not talking about the Law of Moses, but the Law God has put into your heart.

In an attempt to wake you all up...I want to point out the elephant in the room.
That being, if you are not under the Law...You have no Law...and if you have no Law...you are called Lawless in the Bible.
And Paul, has a scary prophecy for you to read.
But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for those who defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine
(1 Timothy 1:8-10)

When most people say " we are no longer under the law" they are referring to the law of the Mosaic Covenant.

This is not to say "lawless" however. It simply means the Mosaic law no longer applies under the New Covenant.

If adultery, murder, etc was an offense that invited God's wrath under the Old Covenant, then it's still an absolute offense to God under the New because God is unchanging.

What has changed is relational, specifically our relationship as saved children of God with God.

Paul describes the law we are under now as Law, unequivocally. But it's not the same relationship God's children had before time. We are now, because of Christ's work, under the law of the Spirit who gives life.

What we do know is from faith, it's not a list of rules to follow, it's simply seeking to do and be the good pleasure of God.

Sin is still sinful. There is still sin. God's good pleasure by now we should know, and it is that which the Holy Spirit guides us to, which we can see all through the pages of scripture.

If I claim to love you and turn around and beat you I have shown myself to be a liar. It is the same with God. If we claim to love God and continue in the things He hates then we have shown ourselves liars.

 

[Nehemiah6]

BTW,the Ten Commandments were given by Moses under the Old covenant to the children of Israel, It was not what JESUS taught the apostles to teach.

That is incorrect. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus actually taught the proper, higher, and spiritual meaning of the Ten Commandments. And when the apostles spoke of the Law of Christ and the Law of Love, that included the Ten Commandments. The difference between the Old and New Covenants is that in the former the commandments were written on tablets of stone, and in the latter they are written on hearts and minds.

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb 10:15-17)