Jesus laying down His life vs. Him being murdered

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NotmebutHim

NotmebutHim

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#1
May 17, 2015
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#1
Was Jesus murdered, or did He lay down His life of His own accord?

I would say that it's both, because the Scriptures don't contradict themselves.

John 10:18 (NKJV):

"No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Acts 5:30 (NKJV):

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree."

Matthew 5:21-22 (NKJV):

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

I believe the point that Peter was making was that the Jewish leaders hated Jesus in their hearts well before they decided to have Him crucified. Like Jesus Himself said, no one takes (or can take) His life from Him. Therefore, although Christ wasn't crucified against His will, those who wanted it done had "murdered" Him in their hearts already.

$0.02
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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#2
Feb 20, 2021
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#2
No doubt, Jesus allowed His measly creations to capture Him and murder Him. Humanity thought they were so (fill in your idea here) to capture Him. Jesus didn't have to do it . . . He could have vanished, walked through the crowd, or ascended to Heaven as He had before.

Jesus layed down His life as a Holy Sacrifice so that we would be made Right with God.

We should all be supremely thankful for Jesus and His Holy Purpose, Work, and Effect.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

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#3
Sep 4, 2013
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#3
Seen this discussed here before. It progressed into people saying Jesus committed suicide. Seriously. Thus, suicide is not a sin according to those who went that direction. Jesus DID NOT committ suicide!
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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#4
Feb 20, 2021
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#4
p_rehbein said:
Seen this discussed here before. It progressed into people saying Jesus committed suicide. Seriously. Thus, suicide is not a sin according to those who went that direction. Jesus DID NOT committ suicide!
Click to expand...
Wow. That's crazy.
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
#6
#6
NotmebutHim said:
Was Jesus murdered, or did He lay down His life of His own accord?

I would say that it's both, because the Scriptures don't contradict themselves.

John 10:18 (NKJV):

"No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Acts 5:30 (NKJV):

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree."

Matthew 5:21-22 (NKJV):

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

I believe the point that Peter was making was that the Jewish leaders hated Jesus in their hearts well before they decided to have Him crucified. Like Jesus Himself said, no one takes (or can take) His life from Him. Therefore, although Christ wasn't crucified against His will, those who wanted it done had "murdered" Him in their hearts already.

$0.02
Click to expand...
What an interesting thought...
This begs the question, if you see someone obviously acting like a "fool", shouldn't you tell them? Jesus constantly tried to "correct" the pharisees, even called them vipers and thieves...
 
Beckie

Beckie

Well-known member
#7
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
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#7
It was all exactly as God planned. HE GAVE his life ,, the Jewish leaders wanted Him dead. They got the romans to do the deed. That our sins caused.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#9
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#9
NotmebutHim said:
Was Jesus murdered, or did He lay down His life of His own accord?

I would say that it's both, because the Scriptures don't contradict themselves.

John 10:18 (NKJV):

"No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Acts 5:30 (NKJV):

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree."

Matthew 5:21-22 (NKJV):

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

I believe the point that Peter was making was that the Jewish leaders hated Jesus in their hearts well before they decided to have Him crucified. Like Jesus Himself said, no one takes (or can take) His life from Him. Therefore, although Christ wasn't crucified against His will, those who wanted it done had "murdered" Him in their hearts already.

$0.02
Click to expand...
Well, lets be clear what "laying down His life" is. If by that He meant a sacrificial death then we can call His death a sacrifice, but that is not all-encompassing to define what it was as scripture states.

Jesus voluntarily decided at which point He would actually die on the cross. So what kind of death does that sound like? Laying down a life, a murder, or something else? He died much sooner than the others who were also being crucified because He decided when to release His Spirit from His body.

John 19:30 KJV
30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 19:33 KJV
33But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#10
May 3, 2018
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#10
The world was built through Jesus,
Was it who wanted to murder Jesus first, or was Jesus laying down His life first?
Whatever it seems to be a rebuttal.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

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#12
Jan 12, 2022
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#12
Luke 23:49-54

52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
 
soberxp

soberxp

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#13
May 3, 2018
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#13
A-Sword-Cometh said:
Luke 23:49-54

52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
Click to expand...
Luke 22:52-53
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#14
Jan 12, 2022
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#14
soberxp said:
Luke 22:52-53
Click to expand...
Yes, my mistake on the misattribution of the quote, you are correct.

Though interests sake I now look at Luke 23:49-54 and find it also also is fitting to the topic. They murdered him, they conspired and consented to it, this is shown in the negative also with Joseph of Arimathea whom being among them consented not unto murdering the King of the Jews and the Son of God, so I suppose it also bears posting. Shall we smite them with the Sword my Lord?

Luke 23:49-54

49 And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:
51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them; ) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
 
NotmebutHim

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
#15
May 17, 2015
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#15
p_rehbein said:
Seen this discussed here before. It progressed into people saying Jesus committed suicide. Seriously. Thus, suicide is not a sin according to those who went that direction. Jesus DID NOT committ suicide!
Click to expand...
Ohhh I didn't realize that. I definitely DON'T believe that Jesus committed suicide.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#16
Mar 4, 2020
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#16
p_rehbein said:
Seen this discussed here before. It progressed into people saying Jesus committed suicide. Seriously. Thus, suicide is not a sin according to those who went that direction. Jesus DID NOT committ suicide!
Click to expand...
This is a difficult subject because we must wrestle with the scriptural authority that Jesus voluntarily died and the definition of suicide which is voluntary death. So can you explain for enquiring minds what the difference is between what Jesus did and what the universally-accepted definition of suicide is?
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
#17
#17
Sacrificing yourself for someone else is not suicide...
 
NotmebutHim

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
#18
May 17, 2015
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#18
I realized I forgot to include something to the effect of "what do you think?/what are your thoughts?" in my OP.

I don't want to come across as "this is what I think; you should agree with me". :cool:
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#19
May 3, 2018
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#19
NotmebutHim said:
I realized I forgot to include something to the effect of "what do you think?/what are your thoughts?" in my OP.

I don't want to come across as "this is what I think; you should agree with me". :cool:
Click to expand...
I have posted my thought, that is a question.
 
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