Jesus laying down His life vs. Him being murdered

Appareny it needs to be said.

You quoted my post and then said in reference to my observations of the scripture a counter to those.

A counter in which you stated God cannot lie....

Nothing in my post that you quoted, either by implication or your inference, would have permitted such an observation. Yet, you interjected that statement to counter my observation.
When it was entirely unnecessary and had no relevance to my observation save for you implying my remarks led you to think I was saying God lied.

When reading my post shows the L word had no relevance ever. Until you.

There's deep conflict afoot. It's unfortunate. One such thing entered a discussion here and carried on for many a page. When realizing he was being ignored another took his place and starting where he left off.

This appears to occur in many different discussions. Even this one and long hours after the first conflict item was struck.

It's a common pattern in communities of Christ. But once you recognize it happening you are able to ignore it and sustain the peace.

Though sometimes letting the pattern weavers know they are seen becomes necessary. That others may catch on so to not be drawn in unawares.

Someone in a different topic discussion replied to my similar observation there that conflict is what keeps this board busy. I'm paraphrasing Subhumanoid . And if not for ugly back and forth there would hardly be any activity here.

I'm new and Subhumanoid has been here awhile.
If they're right, that's a real shame.

I hope that helps.🙂

Lol... https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/this-place-is-so-weird.204248/

Wow. I thought I was informing you through my shirt time of observations. LOL Fiiiine.

No again you just want to be argumentative.

which is fine. I will just say what I said:

which was not a counter to what you said, as you assumed.


Jesus who is God said HE would be killed. Jesus said He would come back to life after being dead for three days. Jesus is God and Jesus did die as HE said. YOu stated God cannot die, to which I said God can do anything which I will add can include dying.
Dying is not the same as ceasing to Exist in the Context of an All-Powerful God. The Limitation of man is not the limitation of God and God is not limited even in Death AS Jesus said HE has the POWER to take back HIS life from the dead as HE did.

The word of God Jesus Speaking who is God died and HE said HE had the power to take it back again. Human intellect cannot comprehend the authority of God nor can it limit it even in death. Now we are done

Have a nice day

pretty amazing to understand he was willingly dying for those who were killing him.

Look that word up in a lexicon.

Should resolve what otherwise looks like a conflict

=]

yeah he did it for us laid down his own Will to live and suffered and died so we could live and be saved . He died to accomplish deliverance for those who believe in him

“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:9-10, 14-15, 17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

amen of course it wasnt suicide it was him saving us who were bound to death he did it for us , sacrificed his own desire to live to give us a hope of eternal life. He laid himself down for us to save our lives he gave his own in it’s place

Not suicide but victory and salvation for mankind who believe

The death of Christ is one of the four primary Works of Christ . . . to pay the penalty for all of the sins for the Holy Elect. And if His death is one of the primary Works, then it implies that this Work is one of the primary Purposes of Christ. Therefore, if there is a Holy Purpose to the death of Christ, then the idea that Jesus was copping out on life, hence committing suicide . . . shows a total lack of Biblical understanding (and I wouldn't pay a single penny to hear the advice from such a person who offers such insane theology).

The below verses are rarely talked about by anyone, but they are amongst the most important Scriptures in the entire Bible, as they show how God deals with the Holy Saints prior to the physical life and death of Jesus:

Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came
into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

Facing His pending crucifixion, Jesus said: “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall
I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour."

Just because you claim I want to be argumentative does not make it true.

When in your second post to me it is proven you are intentioned in that direction.
What you appear to object to is when someone you address through such tactics does not remain quiet and simply concede you are correct.

You're not.
I always have a blessed day. Accomplished by ignoring a positive salutation from someone who blatantly levies falsehoods toward me prior to such a transparent effort at closure of their negative perspective.

This ends your game.

last word post LOL

Wow. That translation installed goosebumps across my entire set of flesh.

“Therefore, if there is a Holy Purpose to the death of Christ, then the idea that Jesus was copping out on life, hence committing suicide”

yeah I don’t get how anyone would interpret it as suicide but people say things in different ways so who knows sometimes what someone’s really trying to say

they could be takkkng about his Jesus laid down his own life willingly knowing he would die in our place

it really is just God accomplishing what he said he would do in the ot to save man from sin and death. Jesus had come to accomplish all those wrotten promises in the law and prophets including

“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. …because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:5-

part of why he came is to accomplish this prophetic promise of a sacrifice made by God for mans sin , the messiah Jesus came and accomplished this scripture as God spoke beforehand as it would be done

“For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: …who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:21, 24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the living word of God so his ministry was to accomplish all these things written in Gods word to fulfill them


“For dogs have compassed me: The assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: They pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell all my bones: They look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, And cast lots upon my vesture.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭22:16-18‬ ‭

“Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.”
‭‭John‬ ‭19:23-24‬ ‭

all Of this happened in the gospel because it was Gods word coming to pass so in the new testsment this is saying according to the law and prophets


“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus life and ministry ,and suffering and death and resurrection was the fulfillment of Gods Will to save mankind. It’s throughout scripture it happened tonjesus because of who he is , the word of God made flesh being manifest to mankind , gods promises beforehand coming to pass from birth to death

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭


“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. ….

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:1-2, 6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

from his birth to ministry baptism , miracles , his teachings and wisdom to his entrance into Jerusalem on a donkey to his betrayal by a disciple to his suffering and death It’s all written hundreds of years before and Jesus is all those things coming to pass bekng fulfilled by God

“And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts:

smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭13:6-7‬ ‭

we can find all the gospel in prophecy it was just Gods word coming to pass in the earth of the messiah part of that is that Jesus willingly went to the cross because that was what we needed someone to do to intercede for our sins , mankind were sinners sin is death so a man had to die he became a perfect sinless man and died in the sinners place in the law so anyone who believes in him can escape the judgements of e law through his death and resurrection into the gospel

Isaiah 9:6

Murderer: "Do me an act of worship or die!"
Guy whose going to die: "What you are saying is not ..."
Bang!!!!

Did the dead guy commit suicide?
Only if he was capable of worshipping the murderer.

From Isaiah 53

“Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left. And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭15:27-

“But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: Let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭22:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭15:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Another Scripture passage comes to mind: 2 Samuel 1.

In that passage, an Amalekite comes to David and tells him that he killed King Saul. But actually, Saul had fallen on his own sword when the Philistines were closing in. By the way, Saul's armor bearer took his own life as well.

The point is that this Amalekite hoped to get some kind of reward from David from having allegedly killed Saul. However, David condemned him and said that he testified against himself regarding the Lord's anointed (and that his blood was on his head). Because Saul was still the sitting King before he died. David ordered that the Amalekite be killed on the spot.

In other words, Saul's taking of his own life is a very rough analogy of Jesus laying down His life (see how I phrased it differently?). And the Amalekite could be analogous to the Jewish leaders who wanted Jesus to die and the Roman authorities who carried out the crucifixion.

In David's eyes, the Amalekite had "murdered" or "assassinated" Saul, although Saul had killed himself.