'Signs' of an apostle?

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GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#1
Feb 22, 2021
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#1
A Precious reader of The Berean Searchlight asks the following:

“In the March issue, you wrote that ‘apostles had all the gifts of the Spirit.’
What Scripture verifies that statement?" Answer:

"When the gifts of the Spirit were given, each man was given one gift, as Paul
makes clear when he wrote, 'For to one is given by the Spirit the word of
wisdom; to another...knowledge...to another faith...to another...healing...to
another the working of miracles...tongues...he interpretation of tongues...but
all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man
severally as He will' (1 Cor. 12:8-11).

That word 'severally' means one at a time, each by itself, apart from others, a
definition that the context there makes clear when it says that only 'one' was
given the gift of wisdom, while others were given other gifts. The Apostle Peter,
on the other hand, had the gift of tongues (Acts 2:4), as well as the gift of
healing (Acts 3:6-8; 5:16) and the working of miracles (Acts 9:36-41).

He also exercised the gift of prophecy when he was able to tell Ananias was
lying (Acts 5:3,4). Prophets just knew stuff like that (2 Kings 6:12; John 4:18,19).
The Apostle Paul could speak in tongues (1 Cor. 14:18), heal the sick (Acts 28:8),
and work miracles (Acts 13:11,12; 16:16-18; Acts 20:8-12; 28:3-5).

So 'the signs of an apostle' (2 Cor. 12:12) weren’t exhibited when a man used
one gift of the Spirit. They were exhibited when a man showed he could
exercise more than one of them."

—Pastor Kurth In May Berean Searchlight pg.23
-----------------------------
GRACE And Peace...
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#2
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#2
The word apostle has nothing to do with gifts. I means they were physically trained by Christ himself. All twelve of the apostles were taught by Christ. The Lord wanted Paul as an apostle, and Christ had been crucified. So the Lord sent Paul to Arabia for three years and he was miraculously taught by Christ.

The first 300 years of the church was called the age of the apostles because they looked to the apostles or those trained by an apostle. That age ended when the duties of the apostles was taken over by councils of men.
 
Artios1

Artios1

Born again to serve
#3
Dec 11, 2020
670
400
63
#3
GRACE_ambassador said:
A Precious reader of The Berean Searchlight asks the following:

“In the March issue, you wrote that ‘apostles had all the gifts of the Spirit.’
What Scripture verifies that statement?" Answer:

"When the gifts of the Spirit were given, each man was given one gift, as Paul
makes clear when he wrote, 'For to one is given by the Spirit the word of
wisdom; to another...knowledge...to another faith...to another...healing...to
another the working of miracles...tongues...he interpretation of tongues...but
all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man
severally as He will' (1 Cor. 12:8-11).

That word 'severally' means one at a time, each by itself, apart from others, a
definition that the context there makes clear when it says that only 'one' was
given the gift of wisdom, while others were given other gifts. The Apostle Peter,
on the other hand, had the gift of tongues (Acts 2:4), as well as the gift of
healing (Acts 3:6-8; 5:16) and the working of miracles (Acts 9:36-41).

He also exercised the gift of prophecy when he was able to tell Ananias was
lying (Acts 5:3,4). Prophets just knew stuff like that (2 Kings 6:12; John 4:18,19).
The Apostle Paul could speak in tongues (1 Cor. 14:18), heal the sick (Acts 28:8),
and work miracles (Acts 13:11,12; 16:16-18; Acts 20:8-12; 28:3-5).

So 'the signs of an apostle' (2 Cor. 12:12) weren’t exhibited when a man used
one gift of the Spirit. They were exhibited when a man showed he could
exercise more than one of them."

—Pastor Kurth In May Berean Searchlight pg.23
-----------------------------
GRACE And Peace...
Click to expand...
They are not gifts…they are a manifestation (operation) of the gift of holy spirit….and all 9 are available once you are born again. The italicized word gift was added by translator in 12:1 13:2 14:1 &12.

The word severely (idios) means “ones own” or “his own” ….as he (the man) wills.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#4
May 27, 2017
749
186
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#4
From A.W.Pink;

When that term is used in connection with God, it often signifies to regard with favor , denoting not mere cognition but an affection for the object in view. “I know thee by name” ( Exo.33:17). “Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the day that I knew you” ( Deut. 9:24). “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee” ( Jer. 1:5). “They have made princes and I knew it not ”( Hosea 8:4). “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” ( Amos 3:2).

In these passages knew signifies either loved or appointed .

In like manner, the word “know” is frequently used in the New Testament, in the same sense as in the Old Testament. “Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you” ( Matt. 7:23). “I am the good shepherd and know My sheep and am known of Mine” ( John 10:14). “If any man love God, the same is known of Him” ( 1 Cor. 8:3). “The Lord knoweth them that are His” ( 2 Tim. 2:19).

Now the word “foreknowledge” as it is used in the New Testament is less ambiguous than in its simple form “to know.” If every passage in which it occurs is carefully studied, it will be discovered that it is a moot point whether it ever has reference to the mere perception of events which are yet to take place. The fact is that “foreknowledge” is never used in Scripture in connection with events or actions; instead, it always has reference to persons . It is persons God is said to “foreknow,” not the actions of those persons. In proof of this we shall now quote each passage where this expression is found.

The first occurrence is in Acts 2:23. There we read, “Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.” If careful attention is paid to the wording of this verse it will be seen that the apostle was not there speaking of God’s foreknowledge of the act of the crucifixion, but of the Personcrucified: “Him (Christ) being delivered by,” etc.

The second occurrence is in Romans 8;29,30. “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image, of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called,” etc.

Weigh well the pronoun that is used here. It is not what He did foreknow, but whom He did. It is not the surrendering of their wills nor the believing of their hearts but the persons themselves, which is here in view. “God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew” ( Rom. 11:2).

Once more the plain reference is to persons, and to persons only.

The last mention is in 1 Pet. 1:2: “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.” Who are elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father? The previous verse tells us: the reference is to the “strangers scattered” i.e. the Diaspora, the Dispersion, the believing Jews. Thus, here too the reference is to persons, and not to their foreseen acts.

see pt2;
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#5
May 27, 2017
749
186
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#5
pt2;
Now in view of these passages (and there are no more) what scriptural ground is there for anyone saying God “foreknew” the acts of certain ones, viz., their “repenting and believing,” and that because of those acts He elected them unto salvation? The answer is, None whatever. Scripture never speaks of repentance and faith as being foreseen or foreknown by God. Truly, He didknow from all eternity that certain ones would repent and believe, yet this is not what Scripture refers to as the object of God’s “foreknowledge.” The word uniformly refers to God’s foreknowing persons ; then let us “hold fast the form of sound words” ( 2 Tim. 1:13).

Another thing to which we desire to call particular attention is that the first two passages quoted above show plainly and teach implicitly that God’s “foreknowledge” is not causative , that instead, something else lies behind, precedes it, and that something is His own sovereign decree . Christ was “delivered by the (1) determinate counsel and (2) foreknowledge of God.” ( Acts 2:23).

His “counsel” or decree was the ground of His foreknowledge. So again in Rom.8:29. That verse opens with the word “for,” which tells us to look back to what immediately precedes. What, then, does the previous verse say? This, “all things worktogether for good to them...who are the called according to His purpose.” Thus God’s foreknowledge is based upon His purpose or decree (see Psa.2:7).

God foreknows what will be because He has decreed what shall be . It is therefore a reversing of the order of Scripture, a putting of the cart before the horse, to affirm that God elects because He foreknows people. The truth is, He “foreknows” because He has elected . This removes the ground or cause of election from outside the creature, and places it in God’s own sovereign will. God purposed in Himself to elect a certain people, not because of anything good in them or from them, either actual or foreseen, but solely out of His own mere pleasure. As to why He chose the ones He did, we do not know, and can only say, “Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight.” The plain truth of Rom. 8:29 is that God, before the foundation of the world, singled out certain sinners and appointed them unto salvation ( 2 Thess. 2:13). This is clear from the concluding words of the verse: “Predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son,” etc. God did not predestinate those whom He foreknew were “conformed,” but, on the contrary, those whom He “foreknew” (i.e., loved and elected) He predestinated to be conformed. Their conformity to Christ is not the cause, but the effect of God’s foreknowledge and predestination.

God did not elect any sinner because He foresaw that he would believe, for the simple but sufficient reason that no sinner ever does believe until God gives him faith; just as no man sees until God gives him sight. Sight is God’s gift, seeing is the consequence of my using His gift. So faith is God’s gift ( Eph. 1:8,9), believing is the consequence of my using His gift. If it were true that God had elected certain ones to be saved because in due time they would believe, then that would make believing a meritorious act, and in that event the saved sinner would have ground for “boasting,” which Scripture emphatically denies: Eph.2:9.
​
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#6
May 27, 2017
749
186
43
#6
Here is what I see plainly taught;

25 These things have I spoken unto you, [The Apostles}

being yet present with you.{The Apostles]

We were not there. Only The Apostles were.


26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,

he shall teach you all things,[The Apostles]

and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
[ you the Apostles]

Jesus cannot bring to our remembrance what we did not hear Him teach when he was here on Earth.

Does the Spirit allow believers to welcome the truth of scripture? yes
Does the Spirit help us remember things, yes

However that is not what was being taught in Jn14, 15, 16.

Jn.15
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

This is addressed to the Apostles;
mk 3:14
14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

jn16;
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

Again, THE APOSTLES...

jn16;
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

This again is spoken directly to the Apostles, not everyone.
We can learn things based on what they wrote, but not one of us, is "guided into all truth".

Every false teacher pulls verse 13 out of the gospel of jn and adds 1jn 2:27 to explain why they are guided into all truth...NOT
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#7
May 27, 2017
749
186
43
#7
sorry posts 4 and 5 were meant to go in the election and predestination thread. I do not know how to move them there
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#8
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
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#8
I don't think one has to be an apostle to walk in all nine gifts one only has to be willing and God will use you to the fullest extent
The office of apostle is not one that is uncommon or rare it is merely one that the twelve diciples were i don't know if we have any in todays age as admitidly i have not studied the office of apostle but i don't imagine they are an office that few are able to be and if they are i don't think they are somehow more esteemed than the other offices in the spirit
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#9
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#9
Iconoclast said:
Here is what I see plainly taught;

25 These things have I spoken unto you, [The Apostles}

being yet present with you.{The Apostles]

We were not there. Only The Apostles were.


26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,

he shall teach you all things,[The Apostles]

and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
[ you the Apostles]

Jesus cannot bring to our remembrance what we did not hear Him teach when he was here on Earth.

Does the Spirit allow believers to welcome the truth of scripture? yes
Does the Spirit help us remember things, yes

However that is not what was being taught in Jn14, 15, 16.

Jn.15
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

This is addressed to the Apostles;
mk 3:14
14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

jn16;
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

Again, THE APOSTLES...

jn16;
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

This again is spoken directly to the Apostles, not everyone.
We can learn things based on what they wrote, but not one of us, is "guided into all truth".

Every false teacher pulls verse 13 out of the gospel of jn and adds 1jn 2:27 to explain why they are guided into all truth...NOT
Click to expand...
When the church looked to the apostles for answers to questions rather than to the counsels made up of disciples, the church was very different from the church today. There was more leniency of doctrine, but very united on the core beliefs. When men took over they added to scripture. As an example, Sunday Sabbath and Easter was added as a core belief. However, heresies sprang up that became powerful and strong.

Do you think we should go back to the apostles for answers and disregard the decisions of the councils?
 
Evmur

Evmur

Well-known member
#10
Feb 28, 2021
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christianchat.com
#10
The church has [potentially] all the gifts no individual has [has had ever excepting of course Christ the Lord] what each one has is THE HOLY SPIRIT and though we may have one or more gifts for the building up of the church the Holy Spirit may manifest Himself in any way He pleases as need arises.
 
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