Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

"There he (Paul) found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?” (Acts 19:1-2) Why would the Apostle Paul ask this question if a person receives the Holy Spirit the moment they believe? He would not.

This might not be the best example, because being disciples of John the Baptist- they don't know the whole Gospel. They are "believers" but the gospel to them is "repent: the messiah, whoever he is, is coming and will do some stuff".

Acts 8 does demonstrate that it's not necessarily immediate, though.

when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

The men in Ephesus were taught by Apollos, who only knew the baptism of John (Acts 18:24-25). They had never heard of the Holy Spirit. Paul taught them that they should believe on him (Jesus) who came after John.


Your holier-than-thou condescension is quite offputting at times.

Acts 19.
I remember Jesus began his ministry after being baotized by John the baptizer.

Yeah, that's how it went down in Ephesus, in Acts 19. It doesn't mean that's how it always goes down for everyone, everywhere. As you can see in Acts 8.

How about be at peace secure in your salvation and not be so invested in telling everyone else we have to see salvations "steps" the way you do in order to be saved.

Unfortunately, this is not known by many. So they try to put human constraints and step by step layers of order upon salvation.
Do this, must do that or else ....

I agree to some extent. But, I mean, if I genuinely thought that you had to eat Jesus' physical body and drink his blood to be saved, I would probably insist on telling people that until someone explained to me why that's not the case.


Well Acts 2:38, depending on how you read it/ translate it, can imply that water Baptism is how sins are remitted. "...be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins". If this "constraint" is in the scriptures, then it's not a "human constraint" unless the scriptures are somehow being misunderstood.

If this "constraint" is in the scriptures, then it's not a "human constraint" unless the scriptures are somehow being misunderstood.

Acts 19.
I remember Jesus began his ministry after being baotized by John the baptizer.

Comparing Paul's observations about John's baptism, when Jesus sought out John, may make someone consider Paul's remarks in a new light. Being, if true what Paul says applies to Jesus first since he was baptized before Paul ,who stated also he did not come to baptize, made this sermon.

Jesus didn't baptize people. Yet, the thief who believed in Jesus and was on the cross beside him, was saved by Jesus when the thief confessed his faith to Jesus.
No baptism, just faith.

And if baptism were mandatory to be saved and be with God, I imagine Jesus would have not only preached that in his gospel teaching,but would have baptized people too.

Interestingly, Paul stated he did not come to baptize. If baptism is mandatory, Paul was remiss in th8nking he was spreading only half the gospel when he didn't baptize people to aecure that full part of the civenant.

And Jesus, who was the living sacrifice for the salvation of the world, dud not baptize anyone.

There appears to be more than one seemingly committed to an effort here to try and tell Christian members we're not really Christian or saved.

It seems they misstate the bible in that effort while not really knowing it themselves. They repeat themselves. Like they're in a rut, have clipped together certain passages they intend to use to make their point.

When those excerpts don't work they repeat themselves in a different way. But they continue to refer to their same verse choices.

The thief died under the OT. Obedience to water baptism in Jesus' name is a NT command in association with Jesus' sacrifice. It was begun on the Day of Pentecost as prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:47)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The problem in Acts 19 was that the men only knew the baptism of John. They had never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ, they had never heard of the gift of the Holy Spirit.

It was begun on the Day of Pentecost as prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:47)

The thief died under the OT. Obedience to water baptism in Jesus' name is a NT command in association with Jesus' sacrifice. It was begun on the Day of Pentecost as prophesied by Jesus. (Luke 24:47)

Paul's interaction with the Ephesus disciples occurred over 20 years after the message was initially given by Peter at Pentecost. (Acts 2:38)

Jesus did preach the need to be baptized. (Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:15-16, John 3:3-5)

The following shows John the Baptist knew he needed to be baptized in the Holy Ghost. And Jesus' actions show water baptism was required as well:
"But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” 15“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.” Then John permitted Him. (Matt. 3:14-15)

The Apostle Paul did water baptize people. Therefore baptism was part of the message he preached. What is clear is that at times others baptized individuals. It appears what his statement conveys is his primary ministry was to preach the message: Acts 16:28-33 Jailer/family, Acts 16:14-15 Lydia/family, Acts 18:8 Crispus, (Paul baptized this leader of the synagogue/Someone else baptized members of Crispus’ household and other Corinthian believers) Gaius baptized by Paul as well.

Scripture is silent as to why Jesus did not water baptize people. However, someone shared that if He had, it would have caused confusion. People would have thought receiving the Holy Ghost and being water baptized were one in the same experience.

This might not be the best example, because being disciples of John the Baptist- they don't know the whole Gospel. They are "believers" but the gospel to them is "repent: the messiah, whoever he is, is coming and will do some stuff".

Acts 8 does demonstrate that it's not necessarily immediate, though.

Eph. 1:13 - what was the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation? See Acts 19:1-6, 2:2-41.

Paul's question, in and of itself, makes the point the Holy Ghost is not automatically received when a person believes.

Paul's question alone makes the point that believing does not automatically provide one with the Holy Ghost.

Your reference to Acts 8 does demonstrate this truth.

Another confirming scripture is presented by Jesus in Luke 11:13,
"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

The thief NEVER died under OT - this is so WRONG to even say such a thing.

Yeah, that's how it went down in Ephesus, in Acts 19. It doesn't mean that's how it always goes down for everyone, everywhere. As you can see in Acts 8.