A Running Theory

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#1
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#1
We are never told what Mary and Joseph did with the gold they received from the magic but most assume it was also symbolic for a King.

Over the weekend I got the opportunity to speak to a collector of ancient Roman coins and asked him about the currency of that time. Long story short he said the sum of gold given to Mary and Joseph was as rare as like hitting the lottery today. 1 gold coin was a year worth of wages.

So I couldn't but think about the atonement money in the OT.

Exodus 30:16
New International Version
16 Receive the atonement money from the Israelites and use it for the service of the tent of meeting. It will be a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord, making atonement for your lives.”

Each person would pay a few pieces of silver to make a temporary atonement for their lives.

My running theory is that the sum of gold being such a massive sum of money could have atoned for a huge amount of people.

Could this by symbolic for Jesus's atonement paid by His blood on the cross?
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#2
#2
Intresting question brother....now i know that in the days of JESUS there was temple money which differs from the roman money.
Judas was also a treasurer of the twelve.
Weather the gold had to be exchanged for the temple money or they were pemitted to keep it as such ....no clue.
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

Well-known member
#3
Jan 19, 2019
1,371
432
83
30
Anacortes, WA
#3
I am not sure about your specific question, but I do recall hearing that each of the three gifts represents the 3 offices Jesus held

Gold = King
Frankincense = Priest
Myrrh = Prophet
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#4
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#4
Diakonos said:
I am not sure about your specific question, but I do recall hearing that each of the three gifts represents the 3 offices Jesus held

Gold = King
Frankincense = Priest
Myrrh = Prophet
Click to expand...
Yes these are the usual assumption. They are good assumptions but the Bible doesn't say what they were for. Frankincense is also used in burial so was being the lamb of God, wrapped in cloth and laid into a manger.

I'm simply asking is it plausible to assume the gold could of been symbolic for the atonement of mankind's sins in correlation to the atonement money in the OT.

The gold was fit for a king which meant it was a huge amount that could of paid the atonement price for a huge unknown factor of people.

My theory is all the elect who are in the Book of Life.
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

Well-known member
#5
Jan 19, 2019
1,371
432
83
30
Anacortes, WA
#5
Roughsoul1991 said:
is it plausible to assume the gold could of been symbolic for the atonement of mankind's sins
Click to expand...
It's a plausible option if at least 2 Biblical witnesses substantiate it.

The wise men may be a fulfillment of Isaiah 60:6

“"those from Sheba will come [to Jerusalem]; They will bring gold and frankincense,
And will bear good news of the praises of the LORD.”​

and Psalm 72:10–11
“Let the kings of Tarshish and of the islands bring presents;
The kings of Sheba and Seba offer gifts.
And let all kings bow down before him, All nations serve him.” ​

​
 
B

BeeThePeace

Active member
#6
May 2, 2022
443
135
43
#6
Roughsoul1991 said:
Yes these are the usual assumption. They are good assumptions but the Bible doesn't say what they were for. Frankincense is also used in burial so was being the lamb of God, wrapped in cloth and laid into a manger.

I'm simply asking is it plausible to assume the gold could of been symbolic for the atonement of mankind's sins in correlation to the atonement money in the OT.

The gold was fit for a king which meant it was a huge amount that could of paid the atonement price for a huge unknown factor of people.

My theory is all the elect who are in the Book of Life.
Click to expand...
I thought the gold was to insure Jesus was financially secure to grow up as more than just a carpenters son.

If silver was used in the OT accounts for atonement, why would gold be used for the same purpose in the new? Or maybe I'm not understanding.

Why would gold be used for the purpose you suggest? God can be bought?

And if that was the purpose of the gold, how would Jesus' blood blot out the sins of the world?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#7
Jul 18, 2017
24,494
12,953
113
#7
Roughsoul1991 said:
My running theory is that the sum of gold being such a massive sum of money could have atoned for a huge amount of people.
Click to expand...
No amount of money could atone for sins. The provisions under the Old Covenant were temporary, but in anticipation of the coming Lamb of God.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#8
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#8
BeeThePeace said:
I thought the gold was to insure Jesus was financially secure to grow up as more than just a carpenters son.

If silver was used in the OT accounts for atonement, why would gold be used for the same purpose in the new? Or maybe I'm not understanding.

Why would gold be used for the purpose you suggest? God can be bought?

And if that was the purpose of the gold, how would Jesus' blood blot out the sins of the world?
Click to expand...
Gold= extremely more valuable

Symbolic for Jesus's blood in atonement to be extremely more valuable.

But who knows the Bible doesn't say what the gold was used for or explained if it was symbolic.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#9
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#9
Nehemiah6 said:
No amount of money could atone for sins. The provisions under the Old Covenant were temporary, but in anticipation of the coming Lamb of God.
Click to expand...
Yeap probably nothing to it other than financial reasons.
 
Beckie

Beckie

Well-known member
#10
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
935
113
#10
Roughsoul1991 said:
Gold= extremely more valuable

Symbolic for Jesus's blood in atonement to be extremely more valuable.

But who knows the Bible doesn't say what the gold was used for or explained if it was symbolic.
Click to expand...
The OP brought this passage to mind..
Jesus said :
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#11
Sep 2, 2020
12,298
4,971
113
#11
Roughsoul1991 said:
We are never told what Mary and Joseph did with the gold they received from the magic but most assume it was also symbolic for a King.

Over the weekend I got the opportunity to speak to a collector of ancient Roman coins and asked him about the currency of that time. Long story short he said the sum of gold given to Mary and Joseph was as rare as like hitting the lottery today. 1 gold coin was a year worth of wages.

So I couldn't but think about the atonement money in the OT.

Exodus 30:16
New International Version
16 Receive the atonement money from the Israelites and use it for the service of the tent of meeting. It will be a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord, making atonement for your lives.”

Each person would pay a few pieces of silver to make a temporary atonement for their lives.

My running theory is that the sum of gold being such a massive sum of money could have atoned for a huge amount of people.

Could this by symbolic for Jesus's atonement paid by His blood on the cross?
Click to expand...
could be

you know the altar in the ot was covered with gold , the frankincense and Myrrh were two main ingredients for the anointing oil for the high priest and king. And the incense that was to burn before the altar. The high priest was to attend these thkngs of gold and even bare the golden censor for the day of atonement.

I’ve always thought this to be significant regarding Jesus eternal priesthood and kingship after he was glorified. Those gifts seem to be for a king and priest according to the ot pattern found in the law for the earthly and temporary leviticle priesthood and thier ordinances and patterns given to Moses
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#12
Jul 2, 2011
21,237
6,530
113
#12
Beckie said:
The OP brought this passage to mind..
Jesus said :
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Click to expand...
Amen Elsewhere it is written down by Isaiah the we are being tried, but not as gold or silver, rather in the fire of affliction that we be not cut orr.

Our faith is like ened to gold. The walls of new Jerusalem are made up of gold, the faith of the saints. The street is paved with gold so pure it can be seen into like water or glass. Yes even in the parable of the servants being given talents of gold, it can be likened to the gift of faith which is to be increased bye each of the servants lest one be found amiss, without righteousness upon His return.

I praise God with all others who do, for He is worthy, not I. God bless you for your words which help fortify a good foundation.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#13
Jul 31, 2013
36,682
13,139
113
#13
Roughsoul1991 said:
We are never told what Mary and Joseph did with the gold they received from the magic but most assume it was also symbolic for a King.

Over the weekend I got the opportunity to speak to a collector of ancient Roman coins and asked him about the currency of that time. Long story short he said the sum of gold given to Mary and Joseph was as rare as like hitting the lottery today. 1 gold coin was a year worth of wages.

So I couldn't but think about the atonement money in the OT.

Exodus 30:16
New International Version
16 Receive the atonement money from the Israelites and use it for the service of the tent of meeting. It will be a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord, making atonement for your lives.”

Each person would pay a few pieces of silver to make a temporary atonement for their lives.

My running theory is that the sum of gold being such a massive sum of money could have atoned for a huge amount of people.

Could this by symbolic for Jesus's atonement paid by His blood on the cross?
Click to expand...
i don't think so. silver is symbolic for atonement; atonement money is always paid in silver.

as far as what they did with it, pragmatically speaking you know, they fled to Egypt for some years - i imagine this financed that. we also never hear of Joseph again after the events when Jesus was a young boy, so it is usually presumed that Mary was a widow, and perhaps this small fortune ((tho we do not know how much the magi actually gave)) sustained her in her later years. speculation of course - and as mentioned, we don't know how much gold they gave, or how much spices ((the spices may have been worth even more than the gold!)). it's possible there was little more than enough for them to travel to Egypt, live there a while, travel back and set up a domicile in Nazareth. maybe it wasn't even enough for that.

the amount isn't given so i believe the amount isn't important.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#14
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#14
posthuman said:
i don't think so. silver is symbolic for atonement; atonement money is always paid in silver.

as far as what they did with it, pragmatically speaking you know, they fled to Egypt for some years - i imagine this financed that. we also never hear of Joseph again after the events when Jesus was a young boy, so it is usually presumed that Mary was a widow, and perhaps this small fortune ((tho we do not know how much the magi actually gave)) sustained her in her later years. speculation of course - and as mentioned, we don't know how much gold they gave, or how much spices ((the spices may have been worth even more than the gold!)). it's possible there was little more than enough for them to travel to Egypt, live there a while, travel back and set up a domicile in Nazareth. maybe it wasn't even enough for that.

the amount isn't given so i believe the amount isn't important.
Click to expand...
There was nothing special about the silver for atonement. It was simply the value needed as prescribed by God. So the theory looks at if it took I think 7 pieces of silver to atone for one, how much more would a sum of gold atone for? It is true that Jesus paid in blood for all sin. But equally true not all will be saved. So in theory could the sum of gold represent the elect or those in the book of life?

I have not chose to accept this theory but only taking it into full examination.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#15
Jul 31, 2013
36,682
13,139
113
#15
Roughsoul1991 said:
I have not chose to accept this theory but only taking it into full examination.
Click to expand...
then fully examine it; please do!

search the Bible for 'silver' and see how many times the law requires it or allows it as a ransom or atonement
and then check 'gold' to see if it ever is used in the law as a ransom or atonement

:)

by all means, don't just stand on your opinion that "this has value" and "this also has value" therefore "they are interchangeable"
see what scripture says; that is how to find out what these things mean as symbols, as God defines them
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#16
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
63
#16
The gold financed their trip to Egypt when they fled. And throughout his young adult life. Likely traveling/lodging/giving to the poor/etc.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#17
Jul 31, 2013
36,682
13,139
113
#17
Roughsoul1991 said:
the value needed as prescribed by God
Click to expand...
that is the special thing, bro.
God designated silver as a ransom or atonement price.

of course blood is the real ransom, but as symbols go -- we have to take God's definitions, not our own.
that's why i'm like, well, that's a nice thought, but you might as well say the frankincense represents atonement too, since it was worth more than its weight in gold.

that's just not how symbolism works.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#18
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#18
posthuman said:
then fully examine it; please do!

search the Bible for 'silver' and see how many times the law requires it or allows it as a ransom or atonement
and then check 'gold' to see if it ever is used in the law as a ransom or atonement

:)

by all means, don't just stand on your opinion that "this has value" and "this also has value" therefore "they are interchangeable"
see what scripture says; that is how to find out what these things mean as symbols, as God defines them
Click to expand...
Silver was cheaper so an individual could more easily afford it. It was used as a value. So 1 gold coin could pay for estimated (without doing math) 100 people.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#19
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#19
posthuman said:
that is the special thing, bro.
God designated silver as a ransom or atonement price.

of course blood is the real ransom, but as symbols go -- we have to take God's definitions, not our own.
that's why i'm like, well, that's a nice thought, but you might as well say the frankincense represents atonement too, since it was worth more than its weight in gold.

that's just not how symbolism works.
Click to expand...
God designated silver as a ransom or atonement price.
Click to expand...
God designated a value for the ransom. It simply took a few pieces of silver to make that value. Nothing special in the silver other than the value of it.

Not sure about frankincense being more expensive than gold.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#20
Jul 31, 2013
36,682
13,139
113
#20
Roughsoul1991 said:
Not sure about frankincense being more expensive than gold.
Click to expand...
perhaps not frankincense as much as myrrh:

https://herbandroot.com/pages/frankincense-myrrh-more-valuable-than-gold


Roughsoul1991 said:
Nothing special in the silver other than the value of it.
Click to expand...
bro, there is something very special about it:

Roughsoul1991 said:
God designated a value for the ransom.
Click to expand...
God designated it as the price of ransom.
not gold, but silver.

God isn't arbitrary
 
You must log in or register to reply here.