Were Nephilim (Gen 6) judged differently by God?

The mental gymnastics, twisting, speculation, and private interpretations some people have to go through because they simply are unable to accept that which is clear in Scripture is incredible.

The Bible tells us exactly WHY these angels are in their hell (tartarus).
So if someone can't accept what is written, then they have to explain just why these angels are there right now. What was their sin to elicit such a harsh judgement, if it wasn't what Jude tells us they had sex with human women!

I had a couple guys tie themselves up in knots yesterday, saying that human beings witnessed God Creating the Universe and the human beings Adam & Eve!

It is entirely possible that the phrase "walking with God" simply means to be in agreement with Him if you take Amos 3:3 in context of God "standing" against Israel, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

Was your post here approved by a reputable 'bible scholar'?

LOOK here and see if you can find the laughter in this news headline:

"After searching for dogs' intelligence, a top canine scientist concluded that their true gift is affection.

i would of never known this to be true if it were not for our "top canine scientists"

What does that even mean?
Looking at the majority of English translations and looking at the Interlinear of the Hebrew I think it is clear that the Them is Sodom and Gomorrah, They is the cities around Sodom and Gomorrah and the These is Sodom and Gomorrah.



Both Peter and Jude are talking about the judgments that have happened in the past even though there is a final judgement yet to come.

The only connection being made between the angels and Sodom, Gomorrah, and the cities around them, is that they are examples of judgements that have already occurred before the final judgment. The other examples are also given as examples of judgments that have already occurred. The Flood, the Israelites in the wilderness.

Their point is to remember these various examples of judgments as proof of the one to come and live accordingly.

Apparently there were teachers trying to say that this judgment was not coming. Even saying stupid things like since the creation of the world all things had continued unabated and they were willfully ignorant of these various judgments that have already occurred and these judgments prove that the final ones prophesied will also come.

That is the main message and turning Jude or Peter into a proof text for angels and women making giant hybrids is missing the main message which is ironic. People walking around talking about angel/women/giants while not preaching about the judgments to come so that people get saved. This angel myth is not going to lead anyone to Christ. Preaching the Gospel which always should include the truth about how God has appointed Jesus to judge in the future will.

Paul Preaching to Gentile Philosophers at Mars Hill...
Acts 17
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

I had no background in the bible, religion, or these discussions. I was in jail when I first read a bible given to me by the Chaplains office. No study bible, just a plain bible. No one to teach me or talk to me.

When I first read Gen 6 I understood it to mean these were people. "sons of God" was a description of their morality. That they marred those women over in Cain's camp and went all wicked.

So I for one am proof that this is how a beginner with no influence from others interprets it. I didn't hear about the angel theory until probably a year or so later when I got more reference books.

People who have never heard about any of this and don't know about Job are not going to automatically think of angels. And usually the Job explanation comes from reading notes or commentaries because Job does not even mention angels. Though we assume that is what he is talking about. But to think that a beginner with no information about Job is going to read angels into "sons of God" in Gen 6 is not reality. I didn't. Never even crossed my mind. I used context and understood it as godly people vs ungodly people just like the story had been presented from Gen 4 to Gen 6.

We could do a test. We would have to find people who were not tainted by a sensational video or TV show about it. People who had never heard of any of this and never read Gen 3-6.

But if they all came away with the idea that these were godly people, someone invested in the angel myth would just say it is because they are ignorant. People move the goal posts from "a beginner reader would understand it" to "they are ignorant" if they don't get the results they want.

I don't know what you are trying to communicate.

Of course he is free to tempt and influence people to sin. But we also know that he is bound by limitations as to what he can do. He is on a leash so to speak. Chains of darkness.

But hey brother. I love you too. And I say this to you in love and with a desire for you to know the scriptures and what God intended for you to understand and to live and apply to your life.

Please get a book on hermeneutics and learn how to discover authorial intent. The Holy Spirit does not allow us to use Him to teach ignorant or dumb mistakes because we are too lazy to do the due diligence of study.

If you can't present your case using the rules of hermeneutics it is because you have no case. And blaming it on the Holy Spirit is not going to fly. The meaning that the Holy Spirit intended will ALWAYS be discovered using the process of heremneutics and those that listen to your presentation will be edified. And even if you make a mistake in one area so that end result is questionable there process of applying the rules of hermeneutics can be edifying to all those engaged in the conversation.

At this point no one has proven that this simple statement is about angels who had sex with women. That is only an imagined interpretation and not what the writer said.

New International Version
And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

If we stick to the text, since that is all that we are given, the emphasis is on the fact that they are examples of a judgment that has already occurred but then they are reserved for a judgment on the great Day.

It was common knowledge that the angles had rebelled. It is most likely that is all that Jude is referring to.

To insert talk about sex with women is imaginative interpretation and cannot be proved. Sticking to the text is safer in ascertaining what the author intended (the Holy Spirit and Jude)

To say that the everlasting chains of darkness means that they cannot tempt people or try to influence people cannot be proved. It is an unsupported claim.

To say that they are reserved for judgment on the Great Day under these chains of darkness which is the same as the kingdom of darkness is plausible and probable.

Those who want to force it to say that they are not able to tempt people under these chains of darkness have not yet presented their case to support that.

I am simply reading the text and seeing the chains of darkness as the limitations that God has put on these rebellious angels until the final judgment. And that limitation called Chains of Darkness fits the rest of the bible.

I find my interpretation the safest without having to force imagined ideas that the angel women myth does. So I find it most likely what the Holy Spirit intended, but I could be wrong and will remain open to new information as I continue the hermeneutical process required to ascertain authorial intent.

You said: "He(satan) is on a leash so to speak. Chains of darkness."

Dear Brother, you are giving me the very best laughter of the day.

PLEASE bring forth the scripture that says this - thank you

P.S. satan is not part of the group of fallen angels bound in chains waiting for the day of judgment.

These are ONLY the angels who abandoned their proper domain(spirit realm) and came to earth as described in Genesis chapter 6 and Jude.

YES, i know..........................stay away from so called 'bible scholars'.

Are you willing to admit that satan and demons have limitations enforced on them by God? We can call them limitations if you like. Boundaries. whatever you prefer.

lol Adam was created on day 6

Laughing is not one of the rules of hermeneutics. You have to present your case with reasons.

He could be. Your statement does nothing to prove that he is not. It is simply an opinion you have.

New International Version
And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

You don't see satan as part of this group. I do. You can't prove me wrong. I can't prove you wrong. The text does not give you the details that you want to add to it. Stick to the text only like you said we should do. No adding sci fi stuff that he did not say.

Gen 6 says nothing about angels abadoning anything or coming to earth. You made that up. You imagined it.
Jude says what I quoted.
And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Nothing about women. You force things that are not there.

It does not require a Bible Scholar to see that you are reading between the lines. You are assuming that Jude is talking about something that Jude is probably not talking about. Jude is probably wanting only to express what he said, about angels rebelling which was common knowlege to the Jews in the first century, and you seem to trying to make him express something he did not say about women and angels which was a debated topic in the first century of which the majority of Rabbis rejected.

Thank you for the extra details about the book of Jude. I am quite familiar with Jude.
I would like to show you something about the Greek syntax which Jude used in verse 7.
Jude referenced 2 groups: "they" and "these"




In the Greek, "Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them" is all one unit called a "Nominal Phrase".
It means that "these" refer to the nominal phrase, and "they" refers to the preceding nominal phrase, which is "angels..." in verse 6.

So "angels" are, in fact, associated with the same act sin as "Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them", as well as their judgment.

You can form your own conclusions from that but is what it says. In English, it's not so obvious. This is because, in Greek, word order is irrelevant. You can rearrange all the words, and they still mean the same thing. Each Greek word is conjugated so that the reader can know exactly what the subjects and predicates are, and their relation to one another. The level of ambiguity is very low if now zero in most cases. Here, it's very clear.

New International Version
In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings

In the same way Is used more than once in Jude. Notice that the connection is that all of these examples of rebellion were judged in some way, and that is what Jude is focused on.

They were judged... In the same way, they were judged, and in the same way they were judged.. etc.

2 Peter 2

1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hella and committed them to chainsb of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;c 7and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked 8(for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); 9then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials,d and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 10and especially those who indulgee in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.


Jude

3Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who savedc a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,d serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

8Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. 11Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam’s error and perished in Korah’s rebellion. 12These are hidden reefse at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.


Lets stick to their message. It seems odd that people would use these passage to teach about a sci fi fictional prediluvian theory instead of the message these two passages are about.

I would need to reference some Greek Scholars I respect like Gordon Fee and see how he explains the Greek in Jude.

While I am working on that. I would like to add that even if Jude was quoting Enoch 1 I am not convinced that Jude or Peter thought that Enoch was inspired or from Enoch. Maybe they quoted from them to make a rhetorical point but I am not sure about that yet. I am still researching all that.

Enoch is not inspired as a whole, but everything in God's Word is true. The fact that God's word quotes other sources simply means that the content that is quoted is confirmed to be true by The Holy Spirit.

I think I know what you mean. But not sure. When Paul quoted an Epicurean poet the fact was true even though the pagan poets writings were not inspired.

But if Enoch 1 is being referenced, to make a point, is the point about judgment or about angles/women. I haven't read Enoch 1 enough to know what it says about angels leaving their first estate, or if those words are used in Enoch 1.

I will have to get back on that at a later time after reading some commentaries, and references material, as this is out of my debth of knowledge.

At this time I do not see any proof of angels and women producing babies in Jude. Or in Gen 6. But as I read up on the Hebrew and Greek for both passages I will see if I can discover something that all the other English translators have missed, (lol, now look who is laughing ) but it is not likely that I will.

I would like to know more about where Peter and Jude are coming from with Enoch 1. It is one of those things I keep putting on the shelf for another day.

Amen.
Jude's message was about the apostasy of false teachers (Jude 4). He used a trio (Egypt, Angels, and cities) of OT examples to illustrate how false teachers are sensually corrupt and will face God's eternal wrath. He actually uses about 10 trios in the letter to demonstrate different aspects of false teachers. This is the first trio.
It follows the flow of Romans 1: denying the incorruptible God corrupts you, sexually. General immorality, unnatural sexual activity, and a depraved mind... It is completely in line with the theme of the Jude and the result of apostasy.

The only reason people push against the angel view of Genesis 6:1-4 is that it is strange and uncomfortable to them.

It may help to investigate where else οἰκητήριον ("habitation") is used (2 Cor 5:2). You'll discover that it is the imiterial body, which is a different (ἕτερος= "strange") flesh than human. The "first estate" is in the immaterial realm. They left that realm and indulged in immorality and went after a different flesh. It was the most offensive thing that could think of to insult God. And it was.

ABSOLUTELY = But they are not in chains , under darkness in prison.

The limitations of satan and his angels are fully explained in the Collection of Truth found in the Gospels, in the NT Letters and in Revelation.

You need to take your time and carefully examine these things with taking notes and most importantly of all = PRAYER.
Follow these instructions that everyone must follow.

A.) Matthew 6:6
But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.


B.) Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

C.) Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.