Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

Yes but those ‘works’ are a result of God first working in us and are thus a fruit of God’s Spirit…similarly…

Philippians 2:12-13 ESV
[12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, [13] for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Well here's the problem, genius. That promise was given to His flock, the sheep who heed His voice; however, in the goats and sheep judgement, the goats who were convinced that they'd been serving the Lord and therefore must be saved, they never saw that coming until they met the Lord face to face; the sheep were equally surprised that they were welcomed into the everlasting kingdom. So the question is not about the validity of the promise in John 10:28, but whether you and I have really received it or not. Ultimately, blessed assurance is up to the Lord, not us.

Look, I'm just gonna say this, man: Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of God, his spirit is manifested in us and through us. Love thy God with all your soul, mind and strength is for our salvation, love thy neighbor as thyself is for our neighbor's salvation.

FreeGrace2 said:
Wow, so the promise/guarantee that Jesus gives believers in John 10:28 is a deception then???? Are you serious?
Well, thank you for noticing.

Well, sir, you have erred. v.27 has NO CONDITIONS tied to it. iow, v.27 is merely a description of what His sheep DO or OUGHT TO DO.

There is nothing about having to obey or listen in order to receive the gift of eternal life.

That is covered quite clearly in John 5:24- “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

If you don't understand or believe this, then there is no reason to continue the discussion. Unless you have some questions regarding what Jesus said here. Both "believes" and "has" are in the present tense. That means that from the MOMENT one believes, they have eternal life. And the promise of John 10:28 begins THEN.

This is irrelevant to the doctrine of eternal security. However, the goats simply failed to believe in Christ for salvation.

Don't get too bogged down in metaphors and figures of speech. Stick with the very clearly worded verses and things will be clear.

John 5:24 plus John 10:28 prove beyond any doubt that once saved, always saved. From Jesus' own mouth.

No, it's NOT for our neighbor's or even our salvation. Do you really not understand how a person gets saved???

Are you allergic to the word "believe" or something? It seems you don't want to admit that salvation is by faith or believing, as if that's just too simple.

Well, listen to Paul's words in Eph 2:8; we are saved by grace (no works) THROUGH FAITH (the means of salvation).

Fully Agree and Excellent Scripture.

No condition? I gave you the context of your quote and you are in a state of denial. That’s not “condition”, but IDENTIFY. Only sheep believe, goats don’t, and their true identities are revealed in the sheep and goats judgement. You think that’s just a “metaphor”? Umm, unfortunately, no, that’s related to the ritual on the Day of Atonement where the priests picked two goats, one was sacrificed, and onto the other all the sins of Israel was transferred, then the goat was cast into the wilderness, hence the term “scapegoat”. Your dismissal only shows your ignorance.

Belief doesn’t save you, belief in Christ and in Christ ALONE does. Satan didn’t just deceive Eve with his lie, “ye shall be like God,” he really believed that, and in the end he’s gonna counterfeit everything God does, including his own trinity, and the whole world will be deceived in this delusion. Therefore true belief must be manifested in one way or another, such as where you spend your money, for where your treasure is, where your heart will be also. So, NO, I’m not “allergic” to belief, I’m afraid of delusion, the delusion in 2 Thess that God will cast upon many as a judgement.

FreeGrace2 said:
Well, sir, you have erred. v.27 has NO CONDITIONS tied to it. iow, v.27 is merely a description of what His sheep DO or OUGHT TO DO.
Show me the actual words that create a condition in v.27.

I told you v.27 was a description of what His sheep DO.

That was my point about v.27/ It's a statement about what His sheep DO or OUGHT TO DO. There is nothing about conditions placed on His sheep that result in never perishing.

NONE of His sheep will perish. Ever. See John 3:16

I'm sorry if you are unaware of the meaning of metaphor.

The literal animals were goats. They were called "scapegoats". What is your point?

Well, of course. No works involved at all.

Why are you "preaching" at me? I know all this.

"true belief MUST BE manifested"? Where do you find this? In fact, James taught that true belief (one's faith) should be demonstrated by deeds.

Why would you be afraid of what God does to those who "have not believed"??

Matthew 6:21.
Because that could be you and me while you’re condescendingly and mercilessly judging those who “have not believed”. I know I could be singing In Christ Alone with teary eyes on Sunday and go back to my old pleasures on Monday, and I’m tired of it. This is also why the sheep and goats judgement matters. “Those” without an orthodox Christian label may end up among the sheep without awareness when that judgement day comes, you’ll never know.

While I'm sorry if you're unaware of the gravity of that "metaphor". And I ain't gonna apologize for feeling more related to those parables and all those stories than the theology sections.

Gotta give you a big thumbs up here brother. That's exactly why Jesus died for us!!
Many people believe Jesus only came to save us, and that's why they go to church. Sadly...Those Christians who believe that, miss out on the Greatest gift of all. That gift is Grace.

Many Christians do not understand the full extent of Grace. Sure it saves...but there is so much more. Grace is more than Salvation, it's there to transform the lives of those who follow Christ. Grace transforms us by removing our Hate and Worry by transforming that into Love and of Faith. This transformation, only comes through a personal relationship with God.

Many Christians just go through the motions. They attend Church.... and that's all there is to being a Christian. Many don't understand, when we receive the gift of Gods Holy Spirit, the spirit doesn't give up on us...until the very end. That's why so many people, who once went to church, stop attending. And they really don't understand why they become disenchanted.
Why?
Once we receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit, our spirit now yearns for a relationship with God, and if our spirit doesn't receive what the spirit yearns...

For anyone whose interested this is what Paul was writing about in...
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, “Abba! Father!”
Romans 8:15

Gotta go brother, May God bless your day.

1 Corinthians 7:4-8

FreeGrace2 said:
true belief MUST BE manifested"? Where do you find this? In fact, James taught that true belief (one's faith) should be demonstrated by deeds.
" For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

Nope. Not this verse.

lol. Those who "have not believed" are those who WILL be condemned, just as the 2 verses I shared SAY clearly. Sorry my pointing out the FACT offends you enough to falsely accuse me of being condescending and merciless.

And I haven't judged anyone. The Bible does that, and quite effectively, since you seem unaware of that.

The "sheep and goats judgment" has NO relevance to your lifestyle. "sheep and goats" is a metaphor for saved and unsaved.

I'm not in to labels. That is immaterial. Those who have believed will not be condemned.

Those who have not believed WILL BE condemned.

Very simple.

True belief is more than just words from your mouth or thoughts in your head. It costs you a fortune. Nothing MANIFESTs a person’s true belief better than his credit card bill, that shows where he spends most his money on and what is really valuable in his heart. That’s why Jesus frequently mentioned money in his teachings and parables. If you don’t understand that, then whatever you think is belief is a delusion.

In Mat 25, Jesus Christ certainly seems to suggest that Good Works are important and matter at His Judgment:

"
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Of course not. I never suggested such. True belief is full trust alone in the work of Christ on your behalf for salvation.

What are you talking about? It cost Jesus judgment for all our sins, and separation from His Father and the Spirit.

It costs us nothing. Belief isn't a cost, if you think so.

Nonsense. Just a nice sentiment. True belief is manifested by producing the fruit of the Spirit, which requires the believer to be in fellowhsip with the Lord AND filled with the Spirit.

Are you familiar with any of this?

That's not why He did.

I think your view of "belief" is delusion.

I recommend studying a Greek lexicon on the word "pisteuo".

Yes, good works are important. All believers were created unto good works. Eph 2:10.

Second, good works are commanded of all believers.

Third, all believers are chosen/elected to be holy and blameless, which means good works.

Fourth, all believers and unbelievers will undergo God's judgment or evaluation. But not for "final destination" as many think.

For the believer, the evaluation is to determine whether the believer earned eternal reward. 2 Cor 5:10

For the unbeliever, the evaluation at the GWT judgment is to determine the level of tolerance in the lake of fire.

Matt 11:24 - But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”

iow, some will suffer MORE than others, based on their works.

Good Post. I do not think I disagree with a single thing you stated here. I've long said good works without faith in Christ cannot gain you anything, but good works with faith in Christ, as many Bible passages teach (even the Lord Himself in e.g. Mat 6:4), will gain an eternal reward. When the Bible says: "And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works" (Heb 10:24), I cannot think of a better way to do so than by reminding other brothers and sisters in Christ that we have Heavenly Rewards promised to us for the good works we do as the fruit of our faith in Christ. I also agree there are degrees of torments for unbelievers; those who sinned more are tormented more, and those who sinned less are tormented less.

1 Cor 3:7-15 is the classic passage that teaches (in vs 8) "every one will be rewarded according to his own labor". Not "Salvation for Works", but "Rewards for Works" done with faith in Christ.

1 Cor 3:

"7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8He who plants and he who waters are one in purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

Christ Our Foundation
(Isaiah 28:14–22; Ephesians 2:19–22; 1 Peter 2:1–8)

10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.