NO falling away…Just a free ride… with Jesus.

I continually hear of the falling away of believers before Christ’s return….Hopefully this will clarify that misconception….It is not a falling away …but a departure……We be gone, baby.

A look at the word hē apostasia …translated in verse 2:3 as a falling away which has been wrongly understood as a falling away of the faithful…(turning unfaithful) believers….but that is not how this reads..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a “falling away” and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



First understand that…. The English version prior to King James version.. translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as departing. The King James or authorized version was the first to translate apostasia as falling away.

Jerome's Latin translation of the vulgate around 400 AD, translate the Greek apostasia as Latin discessio ….meaning departure. The Tyndale Bible 1534, the Geneva Bible, and the Cramer Bible first published in 1537, all translated apostasia as departed ….these versions all preceded the King James version printed in 1611.

What happened with KJV …we don’t really know….. but one of the fatal mistakes the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article (the) before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text. The article may be used to point out an object, the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context…. The translators of the Authorized KJ Version looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context…. whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context…. namely to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the air and the gathering together of the Saints to Him.

We need to look at this from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used….

the usage of the article draws our attention to the identity and special significance of this particular departure. The Greeks do not need the article to make the noun definite as used in English. In the Greek a substantive is definite without the article……The article originally came from the demonstrative pronoun such as “this” or “that” …. which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it….. It is used with a word that makes the word stand out distinctly. Whenever the Greeks used “the” article, it points out individual identity…. and it marks a specific object of thought.

The Greeks used the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses …..or even with whole sentences….. We do not have a corresponding English usage or anything even remotely similar. When the article hē (= the) appears in Greek ….it always signals some special significance. And we need to look at the matter from the Greek point of view, not the English, if we are to discover the reason that the article is used.

Apostasia = departure. The cognitive neuter noun apostasia occurs three times Mat 5:31, Mat 19:7 & Mar 10:4…. of divorce, the departure of a husband and wife from each other. The word used here is a feminine noun with only one other occurrence in the New Testament… Act 21:21 regarding a departure from Moses… that is, a departure from the mosaic law. The departure referred to here in 2Thes 2 is explained in verses 2:6-8 of 2Thes as the removal of a restraint.

2Th 2:1 begins this discussion with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering up together with him. This verse in chapter 2 …taken together with the previous verses in the first chapter suggest that the departure refers to the gathering together of holy ones… which precedes both the appearance of the lawless one and the day of the Lord. Therefore, we can conclude that the Bible definition of the word, apostasia is departure.

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II Thes 2:1-8

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Brethren indicates Paul is talking to those in the body of Christ…. born again believers.

By the “coming” of our lord Jesus Christ AND “gathering together” unto Him (2 things) coming and gathering ….addressed to born again believers of the church of God.


2Th2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of [Christ] Lord is at hand.

Just as today, there were those spreading false information including → that the day of the Lord is taking place right now.

The word Christ should be translated Lord. All critical Greek text read Lord.

KJV/NKJV is the only common version that has Christ. Any reference to the Lords Day or Day of the Lord is referencing the tribulation period.



2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the departure (hē apostasia) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In order to not be deceived,…..we need to be aware that there is a departure first.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Remember (dudes) brethren…. I went over this stuff with you…Paul had previously told them in 1Th 1:9&10, 1Th 2:19, 1Th 4:13-18, 1Th 5:1-11



2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

withholdeth …holds back …detains

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth= witholdeth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Letteth is the same word as withholdeth.. (katechō)

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And then ….when? ….When that which detains is gone….taken out of the way …departed. ….Once light is gone …darkness takes free reign.

I suggest that darkness is pretty-much taking free-reign all over the world already...

God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, Paul, the Bible in general, and most Greek scholars seem to disagree with you.

The word apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2 is almost universally agreed upon to mean a departure of the faith... which is how it is also used in Acts 21:21. Moving from one geographic location to another is an entirely different word used in scripture and it's used regularly and consistently.

I don't know why it wasn't translated 'the apostasy" since that is the closest English equivalent translation of the word "apostasia."

This idea is based on a faulty interpretation of the Greek in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Apostosia is never used to describe a departure from one place to another in space, but a departure from one state to another.

2 Thessalonians poses a very significant problem for the pretribulation rapture theory. It must be made to say something it doesn't or the pretribulation rapture foundation crumbles.

you right it is apostasy, and the op proves to be part of the deception of these times by making this unbiblical ridicilous thread.

the apostasy is also predicted elsewhere:

1 timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

guess what greek word it is? aphistémi the same 'departure' word this guy tried to pull a fast one on.

this argument is so terrible it boggles the mind how anyone still uses it. 1 timothy 4:1 predicts the same thing anyway so......... non-starter of an argument.

even if it was correct it makes no sense. "dont worry guys, the coming of the Lord (the real coming) wont happen until the coming of the Lord happens (the 1 thes 4:15-16 which we lie is a separate coming than the second coming with no biblical basis whatsoever).

it would make the apostles some of the worst communicators of all time to not be able to tell any church ever of two separate comings. terrible failure.

or maybe this pre-trib garbage is just that....... garbage invented by men to weasel their way out of the rough times ahead. also add in a little bit of zionism to make it work and you got it. the McChristianity

It would not say what you are spelling it out to say.

Rather (more like this): "that day [the dotl / trib-judgments (per v.2)] will not be present if not shall have come the departure [our rapture (per v.1)] FIRST, and [distinctly] the man of sin be revealed..."




The man of sin is revealed at the START of the Trib years (i.e. "Seal #1 / aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]"--1Th5:1-3--of MANY MORE "birth pangs [plural]"--Matt24:4-8--that will follow on from that point... It is not just "one and done" when it comes to "the beginning of birth pangs")




Once the man of sin's "whose COMING [/ advent / arrival / presence / parousia]" occurs, that is when "the day of the Lord WILL INDEED "BE PRESENT".



The OP is correct.



And this SEQUENCE is repeated 3x in this very context (which aligns with the SAME SEQUENCE in all other passages covering this Subject).

I have never understood this apostasy to be the church but the world, remember Antichrist is their head and he is not church. This falling away is rebellion. It is the final concerted effort to throw off the shackles [as they think] of religion and God.

Antichrist will oppose everything called god and worshipped as God and the kings and leaders of the world will join with him. This is the great end time persecution or the Great Tribulation.

We can see from this how close we are to this.

There's only one problem with this; it's not talking about the "day of the Lord" but the coming of the Lord Jesus and our gathering to him. That is, the rapture.

"Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,"—2 Thessalonians 2:1

Think about what you are saying.


The words "FROM THE FAITH" would not need to be added in 1 Timothy 4:1 IF this meaning were inherent in the word itself (here, the VERB "aphistemi [G868]"--"to stand away-from [apo & histemi]"...



Here's how that verb is translated in a different verse (note that it would not be appropriate to ADD / INSERT the *idea* or thought: "FROM THE FAITH" in connection with its use here), in Acts 12:10:

"When they were past the first and the second ward, they came unto the iron gate that leadeth unto the city; which opened to them of his own accord: and they went out, and passed on through one street; and forthwith the angel departed from him." [i.e. a spatial / geographical kind of "depart"]








[for the readers: the NOUN in our text under discussion in the OP (2Th2:3), "he apostasia [THE Departure]," likewise should be viewed in its CONTEXT to tell "WHAT KIND" of "departure" is meant... and in this case "THE departure" (with definite article; not used in Acts 21:21 "departure FROM MOSES" there)]

Sorry I missed seeing your post. I apologize. = )


You are missing the flow of Paul's thought / argument.

V.3a's "that day [will not be present if not...]" refers back to what v.2 had been covering: the false claim "THAT the day of the Lord IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE". Not that Jesus was already here... not that His Kingdom-age was already here... but that "the DOTL" is already here.




And 1Th5:1-3 tells us that "the DOTL" ARRIVES at the INITIAL "birth pang" (of many more "birth pangs" that will follow on from that first BP; the first BP being what we now know as "SEAL #1" at the START of the "in quickness [noun; Rev1:1 / 4:1 / 1:19c]" time-period, aka what we commonly call the Tribulation Period--the future, specific, LIMITED time-period of judgments unfolding upon the earth, INCLUDING "the man of sin" and ALL he is slated to DO over the course of those years leading UP TO Christ's Second Coming to the earth in Rev19).

The false claim was so "believable" to the Thessalonians due to their present and ongoing NEGATIVE experiences they were then existing in, per 2Th1:4 [etc].




The "false claim" of 2Th2:2 (that Paul is cautioning them about) is what pertains to "the DOTL"; and Paul is telling how the ONE THING (v.1's Subject) relates time-wise / SEQUENCE-with to the OTHER THING (v.2's Subject). They are not "identical" things.








[Paul repeats this "SEQUENCE" 3x in this text (2Th2:1-8)... which is the SAME SEQUENCE found in all other related passages]

yeah. go figure. not only that later on in the text it says Jesus will destroy that wicked one with the brightness of His????? coming.

i already took a good look at the pre-trib idea cause it was so popular, but never ever did i find it in the bible. and the longer i looked at it, the more i realized these guys have to twist and turn everything on their head to come up with this stuff. thats what happens when you have false doctrine, you have one lie, so you have to come up with more lies to cover up the initial falsehood.

example: pre-trib rapture must happen, therefore we need to figure out a way for there to be saints in "The tribulation". well its obviously those people who were left behind and then got saved. couldn't be us, even if the letter is written to the churches and even if there is no rapture whatsoever at revelation 4:1 which is just laughable to even suggest. these dispies always go on about everyone else allegorizing scripture, yet what they do to revelation 4:1 is such a crime scene.

we need to figure out how to invent a two-parts second coming somehow, what do we do? we make fancy charts where it says "in the second coming its wrath and judgment, yet int he rapture coming there is no judgment" and other idiotic charts that anyone can easily deduce hey.... its judgment to the LOST and to the SAVED its a day of relief.
just like 2 thessalonians 1:6-7 says:

"God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels."

there we have it, the timing of the 'rapture'. looky there, just like always its at the coming of the Lord but this doesnt look to be that no judgmetn type of coming we were said it would be? he comes with blazing fire with his powerful angels, thats the second coming (the real one not the imaginary rapture coming), thats when we get rest.

be careful with these dispies guys dont let them deceive you into their weird belief system. they come in many colors, some are Paul's epistles only, but all of them believe in the pre-trib scam, thats a hall mark of their doctrine.

I disagree completely. As well, you did not join what else Jesus said with the Scripture you are trying to say is a "free ride." BTW: that is FAR from the truth. That "free ride" you are refering to cost our Savior His earthly life as He shed His blood on Calvarys Cross......

John 3:16 says "whosoever believeth." That "believeth" is not a one time thing. It is a continous/on going believing in Jesus until the day we pass.

Matthew 10:22 says
22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Which justifies what John 3:16 says, and reflects what happens when the "falling away" occurs.

Do not make Jesus out to be a liar please......

2s Thessalonians 2 has not one thing to do with the rapture.......goodness

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul is speaking directly to believers/the SAVED! He is NOT speaking of the Church being raptured.

In context/what Jesus said concerning the "falling away."

Matthew, Chapter 24:

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

this is TRUTH!

here is an article i found giving a lot of information about the topic --

https://www.alankurschner.com/2015/...efer-to-a-physical-departure-i-e-the-rapture/

it is written from a decidedly "rawr rawr anti-pre-trib-rapture" slant, but it's informative.


it seems the word really is "apostasy" and there is no honest way to get around that.

1) Verse 1's "the coming / parousia / presence of the Lord and OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" involves ONLY US (and NO ONE ELSE), when WE /the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY (and WE ALONE) are "caught up" TO "the meeting OF THE LORD in the AIR" (and NO ONE ELSE!)

...is distinct from...

2) Verse 8's "the MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia / coming"... when EVERY EYE shall SEE Him






What happens BETWEEN those two items is: vv.9,10-12 "...God SHALL SEND TO THEM [i.e. to certain ones] strong delusion so that they should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI..." (IN "the DOTL time-period" also known by the phrase "IN THAT DAY" when these two phrases are used in close proximity / same CONTEXTS, as they are here in these TWO CHAPTERS, they are referring to the SAME TIME-PERIOD: 2Th2:2 [the DOTL], and 2Th1:10 ["IN THAT DAY" (not this present one; and NOT merely "a singular 24-hr day" kind of day)];





--Paul in these TWO CHPTS is CONTRASTING the TWO DISTINCT "beliefs" people WILL BE COMING to "IN THAT DAY" / in "the DOTL"... thus PROVING this is speaking of "an earthly-located time-period" being referenced, that PRECEDES and LEADS UP TO His Second Coming to the earth / Return to the earth / MANIFESTATION (i.e. Rev19 at that point)]






[NOTE: the phrases "rapture/SNATCH [...IN THE AIR]" / our episynagoges unto Him / THE departure" are NOT equated with the definition of "the DOTL" which is ALWAYS an earthly-located time-period unfolding upon the earth (i.e. JUGMENTs [the TRIB] followed by, and including also, BLESSINGs [the MK age]--ALL OF THAT is "the DOTL" time-period)]





Paul is telling WHY it is NOT SO, as the "false claim" purported," that it "IS PRESENT".

It wasn't.

ONE THING must take place "FIRST"... before it can be truthfully stated to be "[IS] PRESENT / [IS] ALREADY HERE".

(Recall, it ARRIVES at the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:1-3]"... not at their CONCLUSION!)


[That ONE THING that must happen "FIRST" is: ... "THE departure FIRST"]


And Paul repeats this SEQUENCE 3x in this 2Th2 text.






[not to mention ALSO that this is the only interpretation which makes sense of the exhortation by Paul to them to "be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled as that..." / " not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by " [the claim that ______ "IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE" which is the false claim in verse 2 that Paul is informing about, and telling what its relation is SEQUENCE-wise to the OTHER THING / HIS OWN Subject in v.1 -- not identical]

1 Timothy 4:1 plus 1 Corinthians 10:18-21~ TheSpirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from
the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons. Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat
the sacrifices participate in the altar? Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything?
No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot
drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.

How you interpret 2 Thessalonians 2:2 will depend in large part on which manuscript text you use. The Textus Receptus and the Byzantine family generally says "day of Christ." The Westcott-Hort and Nestle-Aland say "day of the Lord."

To me it doesn't much matter because v.2 clearly refers back to v.1 and "our gathering together to Him." Verses 1 and 2 are talking about the same thing, the rapture. "day of Christ" is more clear though.

CORRECTING TYPO: "i.e. JUDGMENTs [the TRIB] ..."



[time ran out for editing ]

I see it as grasping just what it was that the "false claimants" were purporting (v.2).



It wasn't that the Subject in v.1 had already taken place.

IOW, the false claimants (v.2) were not purporting that.

Is it me, or are atoms starting to kick their regular orbit?

I don't know how else to understand what seems to be a re-writing/understanding of scripture. Yesterday in this forum, I read that the Bible is basically simply a series of parables.



Free ride with Jesus. Koo Koo