IF 'THE DEAD' don't rise then who do we rule and reign over?

You don't believe those who were beheaded for thier witness of Jesus reign with Christ after the first resurection

or you believe the 144000 are those who were beheaded for thier witness of Jesus?

I'm not disagreeing with you as I see the 144000 reigning as well. I believe many of them die during the tribulation though for thier witness of Jesus.

I believe the beheaded Saints will be included with Other Saints who will rule the world with Jesus during the 1000 years..

The Book of Revelation is clear on this fact..

(Revelation 20:4) "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."




No.. These will be saved from death.. They shall live in the kingdom being ruled by Jesus and the Saints.. So there are 3 groups of people during the 1000 years..

reasurected / raptured Saints who will be in their eternal perfect bodies, they shall be living forever more..

The 144,000 Decendants of Abraham who will live normal lives during the 1000 years..

Those of the nations who survived the wrath who will be outside the Kingdom but will be ruled by the Saints and Jesus..

The 1000 Year Kingdom i believe was defined by the LORD when He revealed it's borders to Abraham when He promised Him that His decendants would dwell in this Kingdom..

(Genesis 15:18-21) "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: {19} The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, {20} And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, {21} And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites."

The ""promised Land"" commonly known in the Bible as Israel was only a fraction of the land that was promised to Abrahams seed.. God will do what He says He is going to do.. So one day the decendants of Abraham will own all the land from nd including Egypt to Iraq..

I'm not disagreeing with you as I see the 144000 reigning as well. I believe many of them die during the tribulation though for thier witness of Jesus.

If they die during the tribulation then they have not been preserved... Take a read of the incident in Exodus where the Jews refused to enter the promised land and rejected the good report from the two witnesses Caleb and Joshua the son of Nun.. How the LORD made the people wander in the wilderness, so that the guilty people would die in the wilderness but their little ones who where innocent at the time He caused then to go into the promised land and live longer lives.. Now compare that to the two good witnesses revealed in the end times in the book of Revelation who give the good report to the people and who shall be rejected and killed in Jerusalem and note the characteristics of the 144,000 that will be preserved.. They are described as innocent, never having known a woman.. I believe the incident in the exodus was a shadow pointing to the future events that are yet to happen in the Book of Revelation..

I don't see the two witnesses as being good at all. Even though they are Christians, they appear to do the exact opposite of everything Christ teaches in the gospel.
I don't recall Jesus instructing anyone to torment people.

I would never call that good for a Christian.

I can see why the two witnesses are removed from the kingdom moments before Christ recieves the kingdom. I wouldn't want them in it as well.

JESUS SAID, the WORDS THAT CAME OUT OF OuR SAVIORS MOUTH WERE

NEVER DIE.


NO matter what WE think ANY OTHER VERSE IN THE ENTIRE WORDS OF GOD SAY, ONE THING WITHOUT A DOUBT IS HE MEANT we would NEVER DIE if while we lived we came to belief.

IF we NEVER DIE, we CAN NOT BE DEAD TO BE RAISED AMONGST THE DEAD.

THEY ARE OPPOSITES IN EVERY WAY SHAPE AND FORM.


SO WHO ARE THE DEAD IN CHRIST? THE OPPOSITE OF THE NEVER DIED IN CHRIST. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH


GOD is the God of the living, AND NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD


CHRIST, ON THE OTHER HAND IS THE LORD OF BOTH THE DEAD AND THE LIVING.


HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND


Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

doesn't anyone believe what is written?


I am not sitting around 'making stuff up'. EVERY SINGLE THING I HAVE SAID I HAVE SAID BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN. I STAND FOR WHAT IS WRITTEN BEING that is WHAT IS MEANT.


SO NO, YOU DO NOT NEED TO QUOTE ME SCRIPTURE WHERE THE DEAD "IN" CHRIST IS WRITTEN.



I'll just apologize now for all the capitol letters. I just am having a very very difficult time knowing that GOD IS WATCHING all of this and


I'll get to any thing that follows later. I

I don't see the two witnesses as being good at all. Even though they are Christians, they appear to do the exact opposite of everything Christ teaches in the gospel.
I don't recall Jesus instructing anyone to torment people.

I would never call that good for a Christian.

I can see why the two witnesses are removed from the kingdom moments before Christ recieves the kingdom. I wouldn't want them in it as well.

Wow ......maybe you need a good Bible.
Suggest you study 1611 edition KJV;

Their job is assigned by God as part of His plan to bring about termination of the church age, man's day and dispensation of judgment.
"torment" people?;
What about the angels pouring out the tribulation on mankind...is that "torment"?
Was the great flood...torment or God's judgment upon mankind?
Was an order to Lot's wife ..."torment"....or a judgment because of failure to follow God's commandments.
How about eternal damnation in the lake of fire...is that "torment"?
All of those are Gods' judgments which we are warned about before hand.

Take heed.....God tells us of the meaning of ..."torment"...not as you slant it's meaning.

Wow ......maybe you need a good Bible.
Suggest you study 1611 edition KJV;

Their job is assigned by God as part of His plan to bring about termination of the church age, man's day and dispensation of judgment.
"torment" people?;
What about the angels pouring out the tribulation on mankind...is that "torment"?
Was the great flood...torment or God's judgment upon mankind?
Was an order to Lot's wife ..."torment"....or a judgment because of failure to follow God's commandments.
How about eternal damnation in the lake of fire...is that "torment"?
All of those are Gods' judgments which we are warned about before hand.

Take heed.....God tells us of the meaning of ..."torment"...not as you slant it's meaning.

(Revelation 20:7-9) "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, {8} And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. {9} And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."[/QUOTE}

WE ARE ACCOUNTED SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER.

Yet, with the same precision and detail as always when it comes to THAT THEORY that goes against EVERYTHING GOD tells us about who He is and how He works and what He does and why He does it and how He treats us all the same... THIS?


And they marched up over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the saints and the city having been beloved But came down fire out of heaven and devoured them

ARE you trying to tell me that 'THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS' IS OUTSIDE THE BELOVED CITY? AND THE CAMP IS THE CHURCH AND THE CITY IS ISRAEL?



Acts 10:33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Acts 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

Acts 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.



Acts 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

NOT A SEPARATE PEOPLE. ONE PEOPLE. ALL THE SAME. WHAT GOD CHOOSES TO DO WITH SOME OF HIS PEOPLE DOES NOT MAKE THEM TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLES.

WHICH IS MADE CRYSTAL CLEAR AGAIN HERE


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

SAVED THROUGH RAPTURE? NO. SAVED THROUGH FAITH

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

ESCAPE FROM THEM BY RAPTURE? NO. WALK IN THEM

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

QUIT TRYING TO BUILD BACK THE PARTITION THAT CHRIST JESUS BROKE DOWN

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.



Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

WHAT ARE WE SAVED BY? RAPTURE? NO. HOPE. AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN.

IS THERE A PROBLEM FOR PEOPLE WHO 'SEE' THINGS? YES THERE IS.

ANOTHER REASON WHY PRE TRIB RAPTURE GOES AGAINST THE SAVING OF SOULS AND RENDERS IT IMPOSSIBLE TO BRING ANYONE TO CHRIST.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.



WHAT THINGS SHOULD CHRISTIANS EXPECT TO BE A PART OF THEIR LIVES AS CHRISTIANS? RAPTURE? NO.

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

DOES GOD COME AND GET THE CHURCH TO MAKE CHRISTIANS ESCAPE FROM ANY OF THESE THINGS, EVEN DEATH WITH A PRE TRIB RAPTURE? NO, AS A MATTER OF FACT

Romans 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Romans 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.


IF THAT ISN'T CLEAR ENOUGH MAYBE THIS WILL OPEN SOME EYES TO THE LIES

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


GET IT? DEATH AND SUFFERING AND TRIBULATION IS NO PROBLEM AND YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE IS PROMISED? And you know what you can't show IN ANY OF THESE? AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:


See, NO NEED TO worry, you will only be a partaker of THE SUFFERINGS up to death

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

YES, IT GOES FOR EVERYONE, YOU INCLUDED.



WHAT ARE WE TO DO WITH THAT SUFFERING? GLORIFY GOD.

1 Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

1 Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

So you claim to be Israel.
When did God bring you back to the place of your father's and do you intend to take theark of the beast that is presently ruling over you?

What?....the Bible tells us that dead is dead...in two conditions; 1) Physical death 2) Spiritual death.
It is appointed unto man ...once to die...then the judgement. .

No, the whole world is not marked by the Israeli goverment. Only those in Israel recieves the mark of the Israeli goverment.

WITH LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS. We can't even take the mark of the beast until Satan has been cast to earth, the deadly wound healed the image set up and the MARK REQUIRED to buy and sell implemented. So, no problem.

As for the gathering


Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


He will send out his angels to gather the elect from all round the world at that time and not before. NOT saying He isn't calling some now....

https://biblehub.com/isaiah/14-2.htm

Nations will take them and bring them to thier own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the Lord's land. They will make captives of thier captors and rule over thier oppressors.

So when did you return to your land which you say God swore to give you?

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

After the 2nd Advent

I'm talking about the beast.
The one which recieved a deadly wound some 2000 years ago but survived.

The one which the world marveled when it appeared because it once was, and was not, and yet is.

You say you shall reign in the Lord's land. Before you can reign, you first will need to have been victorious over the beast.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-4.htm

Which beast? Which 10 kingdoms came into power and ruled the world 2000 years ago? Since there was only ONE world power the ROMAN EMPIRE the beast COULDN'T HAVE BEEN AROUND back then. The soonest any 'beast' could be on the scene would be when 10 kingdoms willingly came together to form a world ruling government. SINCE that hasn't happened....We don't get to chose a verse or two and say THAT HAPPENED so it ALL happened. IT ALL HAS TO HAPPEN as it is written or what does GOD TELL US? We know a false prophet if they something will take place and it doesn't. So ALL of it must come to pass and it couldn't back then.


Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

We know from this that from THE SAND OF THE SEA, a people, a rising up of 7 heads (the thinkers and those in control) which control 10 powers (horns) and they are kingdoms of sorts (crowns) and they are ALL IN OPPOSITION TO GOD


Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

This 'system of government' called the beast will COME IN QUICKLY as will be like all the kingdoms before it (can't change its spots) it will be heavy in that it will trample down all that is under it, and it will be ripping and tearing of flesh and it will be under the INFLUENCE of Satan and he will give to this 'government' world authority (remember what he told Jesus in the wilderness)


Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

To one of these 'kingdoms' something deadly will take place, and what effects ONE effects them all and so it will be bad for everyone. But it is at this time Satan is cast from heaven and arrives to SAVE THE WORLD by fixing the problem which may take some of his supernatural powers. But having saved the world and being a supernatural entity who can perform miracles he will set up the image to be worshipped. To buy or sell aka exist within the world system you will have to become part of it. THERE WILL BE no doubt in ANYONES mind when Satan arrives. Only problem is is they won't know it's Satan. He is soo good in the role he will be playing that if God didn't shorten his time even GODS ELECT would start to believe he was the Lord returned. We have to remember when Satan heals the wound he also installs his angels in the kingdoms to rule with him so everything will come under his control. ALSO we have to remember he will SHARE IN THE WEALTH, making life for everyone who worships him very comfortable and prosperous.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

All wars are about religion and power and since Satan will end up ruling over all that, by the time of his end the whole world will think that PEACE and safety are a TRUTH. But we know it is a lie because we know what is happening and what is coming

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.


The blasphemies he will speak is that he will call himself GOD. He will sit himself as God in Gods place and the whole world will believe him. At this time the only real hope for Christians are the two witnesses God will send to try and turn back those who are being deceived back to God by spreading the truth. I personally think it will be Enoch, because he knows all about preaching when fallen angels are on the earth deceiving man, and Elijah because he is one of my all time favs. I always remember him waking up, jumping up and telling Elisha 'lets go' when they were surrounded by that army. I so can't wait to meet him. He is one of my 12. God worked some of my favorite miracles through him. Anyways

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Yes, I will either have to be returning from heaven with the Lord or be one of the alive and changed to rule with Christ for the 1000 years. THAT equals EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN THERE EVER WAS. EVERY CHILD OF GOD will be ruling and reigning with Him. Always always remember what God wants - that ALL come to repentance. If you don't think He is going to put all His players on the field, you are not understanding the point of the whole thing.

IT HAS NOTHING to do with WHO WE ARE it has EVERY THING TO DO WITH WHAT THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY DESIRES. And we all need to love HIM enough to be willing and wanting and able to do it.

There is no one EXCLUDED from that list. GOD is not a respecter of persons. The sinful flesh talking may try to tell you different but

WE are all

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


Got to always be thinking on the things above, thinking in the SPIRITUAL. We in this flesh have all sorts of issues that make us focus on what we are lacking and it is hard for us to see that whatever we are lack CHRIST MAKES UP for us. So when we are in our spiritual bodies there will be no physical mental or emotional problems that stem from the bodies we possess right now. For some reason it is hard to see that we ARE WORTHY THROUGH THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and all those things lacking HE makes up for. PRAISE YE THE LORD!!! What a sense of pure peace He gives us. When we start really filling our minds with His words OURS just get out of the way.

PS. Scripture does not actually say they ascend to God. It just says they ascend into heaven in a cloud.
I remember when my nations armed forces placed the abomination that causes desolation in Hiroshima. There were many people ascended into heaven in a cloud that day. I'm sure no one wants to be in that cloud when my nations armed forces place the abomination of desolation in jerusalem.
But I know of two who will be. Not the best place in the world to be if you ask me.