Bible Artwork Question

Subhumanoidal · Jul 13, 2022

All,

I was recently contacted by a summer school art student seeking guidance. His class was studying the 1800's artist William Blake and his artwork that illustrated books of the bible. The art student said his assignment included Blake's series of paintings entitled "The Great Red Dragon." (Wiki has a decent write up and images for each of the paintings via this link.; I've also pasted thumbnails of them below.) The student said that after seeing these paintings, researching the associated biblical references, and finding other incredible videos/animations of them, he now feels like his faith is being challenged.

He confessed that he was having trouble sleeping at night with these images etched into his mind. He told me that he had never envisioned such overwhelming powerful depictions of Satan and what Satan could do -- and was having a hard time reconciling this with his faith. I tried to explain the spiritual meaning behind them to him the best that I could so he could strengthen his worship.

I was wondering if others have been equally moved by seeing these and/or other images/videos/animations of them.

rev_GOH

I can't help but feel this students faith is weak to begin with if a few paintings can have such an impact. If it wasn't these paintings it would be something else that would shine a light on their already existing doubts.
I find these depictions quite tame and somewhat bland.

Evmur · Jul 13, 2022

Lucy-Pevensie said:

you philistine

Gideon300 · Jul 14, 2022

Polar said:

I take your point. As far as the devil, that's exactly what Smith-Wigglesworth did. I know one thing for sure. Satan is far more afraid of me than I am of him. I've sensed him tremble at the mighty name of Jesus. It's not me he fears, it's Jesus in me.

montana123 said:

Satan literally means adversary. He can appear as an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:14)

Gideon300 · Jul 14, 2022

Lucy-Pevensie said:

I agree. When "The Exorcist" came out as a movie, people were terrified. I doubt that there would be anything like the same reaction today.

Lanolin · Jul 14, 2022

I recall William Blake was one of the set text in one of my english literature papers.
I think it was Innocence vs experience

I didnt really take to his artwork, though he referenced a lot of the Bible, I wasnt a born again christian then so, I dont think it challenged my faith but maybe my LACK of faith in that I had to maybe look further into the Bible to find out what he was referring to

Im not a fan of his pictorial art though its interesting , kind of reminding me a bit of Michelangelo sistine chapel, similar body builder type models!

I think the poetry though resonates.

I think any illustrated depiction of Revelation can be disturbing depending on what scenes are depicted, but then no more disturbing than the crucifixtion is for some.

A-Sword-Cometh · Jul 14, 2022

Polar said:

Fun fact the Devil loses every time he shows up directly in the Bible. This artwork depicts a future loss by the Devil when he's be defeated by a mere angel, Michael, and will be thrown out of heaven and barred from ever going back up. It is a significant defeat he will suffer because on that day the old serpent is going to know his time is short.

montana123 · Jul 14, 2022

A-Sword-Cometh said:

A lot of people think that war already happened but it did not happen yet.

When Michael and his angels defeats the fallen angels that is when Satan will use the New Age Christ to deceive the world to go against Christianity and the devils deceive all people who do not love God to follow the New Age Christ which is the strong delusion God will give everyone that does not love the truth.

The earth becomes the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird which occurs after the 6th trumpet which God said the world will not repent of their sins which despite the problems on earth that occur that they are failing to have peace the world still keep son trying to solve their own problems to have peace following the new age movement as the interpretation of all religions and not acknowledging a personal God.

After WW1 they set up League of Nations and did not turn to God, after WW2 they set up United Nations and did not turn to God, and that pattern will continue until the 6th trumpet which is probably Islam against the world in which Islam will fall and that war will be so terrible that they turn to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace on earth so God allows the New Age Christ to rule over them.

A-Sword-Cometh · Jul 14, 2022

montana123 said:

A lot of people think that war already happened but it did not happen yet.

When Michael and his angels defeats the fallen angels that is when Satan will use the New Age Christ to deceive the world to go against Christianity and the devils deceive all people who do not love God to follow the New Age Christ which is the strong delusion God will give everyone that does not love the truth.

The earth becomes the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird which occurs after the 6th trumpet which God said the world will not repent of their sins which despite the problems on earth that occur that they are failing to have peace the world still keep son trying to solve their own problems to have peace following the new age movement as the interpretation of all religions and not acknowledging a personal God.

After WW1 they set up League of Nations and did not turn to God, after WW2 they set up United Nations and did not turn to God, and that pattern will continue until the 6th trumpet which is probably Islam against the world in which Islam will fall and that war will be so terrible that they turn to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace on earth so God allows the New Age Christ to rule over them.

It has not happened yet, obviously. You will know when it does if you're alive at that time, won't be able to miss it.

Polar · Jul 14, 2022

A-Sword-Cometh said:

Fun fact the Devil loses every time he shows up directly in the Bible. This artwork depicts a future loss by the Devil when he's be defeated by a mere angel, Michael, and will be thrown out of heaven and barred from ever going back up. It is a significant defeat he will suffer because on that day the old serpent is going to know his time is short.

I think he got that memo

A-Sword-Cometh · Jul 14, 2022

Polar said:

You would think that, but if you were the most cursed animal devoid of the truth you might even deceive yourself into thinking you'll never see the day of destiny. Leaves little room to wonder why he will be full of wrath.

Polar · Jul 14, 2022

Gideon300 said:

That is why we have to know and believe who we are in Christ. Yes, satan means adversary. From what I have read in your posts, you do seem to understand these things. Some want to just blow off the devil and he probably enjoys that.

Polar · Jul 14, 2022

A-Sword-Cometh said:

He's been angry a looooooong time. He is not all knowing but he does know human character and weaknesses.

A-Sword-Cometh · Jul 14, 2022

Polar said:

Woman.

Polar · Jul 14, 2022

A-Sword-Cometh said:

Yet the Bible declares ALL men are liars. I have found that to be pretty much true. Arrogant much?

ps....done with this thread as well

A-Sword-Cometh · Jul 14, 2022

Polar said:

Yea cause the Devil exploited man's only weakness.

Blik · Jul 14, 2022

Subhumanoidal said:

I agree. This student is living with the devil in his mind, not the Lord. We are told what to keep our minds on what is of good report in Phil. 4:8.

In 1 Tim. 4:11 we find---Meditate on all these things, give yourselves wholly to them.......

rev_GOH · Jul 14, 2022

All,

Appreciate the comments so far.

To add to this, I have pasted below some of the commentaries to the biblical references to the paintings. Much of this was prompted by talking points the art student had as he was researching the meaning and symbolism referenced in the paintings and bible.

The references in italic below are excerpted from biblehub's commentaries (link here).

Paintings #1 & #2:

What is the meaning or symbolism of the dragon's multiple heads?
- He is one, yet diverse; one, as an evil spirit; diverse, in the varieties of his power.
- The picture here, as the picture of the wild beast in Revelation 17, represents, as concentrated into a single hostile form, all the varying forces and successive empires which have opposed or oppressed the people of god, and sought to destroy their efforts for good: for all evil has its root in a spirit at enmity with god. Hence the dragon appears armed with all the insignia of those sovereignties and powers which have been animated by this spirit.
- We have, therefore, in this picture of the dragon, the idea of the full and complete power of the world arrayed on earth against god and his church. This power, connected with and derived from Satan, the prince of this world (John 12:31), is often alluded to by St. John as being opposed to, or in contrast with, the godly.
What is the meaning or symbolism of the dragon's enormous tail or serpent and what it is doing?
- And His tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. Not the stars with which the woman is crowned (see ver. 1), but other stars. In describing the vast power of Satan, this seems to allude the tremendous result of His rebellious conduct in heaven, in effecting the fall of other angels with Himself.
- And the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born; which was about to be delivered, that when she was delivered, he might devour her child. A graphic picture of what is true of christ himself of the church, both jewish and christian, and of every individual member of the church. This is another example of the personal history of christ being repeated in the history of his church. Satan attempts to prevent the salvation of the world; He endeavors to crush the chosen people of god, through whom the Messiah was to bless all the earth; by means of the power of rome He labors to exterminate the infant church of christ.
- And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman water as a river, that he might make her to be carried away by the river. The foe of the woman was described as a dragon for his cruelty and fierceness--as a serpent for his subtlety. The first attack on the woman is pictured as persecution by the dragon: from this she escapes by flight; but the subtlety of the enemy finds another device: the foe (now described as a serpent) pours forth water as a river to sweep away the woman.
- The flood is typical of every form of destruction with which Satan seeks to overwhelm the church of god. At the period of the writing of the Apocalypse, it plainly symbolized the bitter persecutions to which christians were subjected; but its meaning need not be limited to this one form of destruction.

Paintings #3 & #4:

Is it conceivable that Satan can "create" or "propriate?" (ref painting #3 and the depiction of how Satan is conceiving the beast from the sea; ref painting #4 and depiction of Satan's creation of second beast and lamb rising from the fire)
- And I saw a wild beast rising out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and upon his horns ten diadems, and upon his heads names of blasphemy. The wild beast rises out of the sea. The sea represents the great, restless mass of human kind; The individuals, like larger and smaller waves, make up this great ocean-like mass of men, swayed by impulse or passion. Out of the sea rises a wild beast.
- The words of this passage thus signify that the beast should possess worldwide dominion and ample power. These are the qualities ascribed to the power which Satan now directs against the "seed of the woman."
- And Satan gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority; and his throne. Satan and this beast are essentially one, since the latter wields all the influence of the former. Satan lost his throne in heaven; through the power of the world He temporarily regains a throne as the "Prince of this world." Christ, by his incarnation, destroyed much of the personal nature of Satan's influence over men. By that Satan was completely bound as regards the righteous; but His power to work mischief He transfers to the nations of the world, who become his instrument for that purpose.
- THE APPEARANCE OF THE SECOND WILD BEAST. For the understanding of this portion of the vision we must notice the contrasts and resemblances between this and the former wild beast. They are both wild beasts: they both have horns: they both have a dragon-like inspiration: they both tyrannise over men; but, on the other hand, the second beast is less monstrous in appearance: we read only of two horns, and we hear nothing of seven heads. He somewhat resembles a lamb; he rises from the earth, and not from the sea; his power lies in deception as well as violence; he seems to possess more supernatural power: yet the whole of his work is directed to magnifying the first beast. Do not these features lead to the conclusion that the principles which the second wild beast supports are the same as those on which the former wild beast acted, but that he supports them with more subtlety, intelligence, and culture? But for all the deception he employs, his work, when stripped of its specious drapery and seen in its naked ugliness, is to promote the honor of the first wild beast. Because of this seductiveness, and of his efforts to support his mission with higher sanctions, he is called in later chapters the False Prophet; the force and appropriateness of this designation becomes more apparent when we notice that the features which are assumed bear a deceptive resemblance to those of a lamb.
- Some see in this second wild beast the pagan priesthood aiding the imperial power, the embodiment of the first wild beast; others-see in it the papal sacerdotal power, the heir of pagan rites; others, again, would combine the two, and view this second wild beast as the sacerdotal persecuting power, pagan and christian. Though there is truth in these views, they are too narrow. It is true that priesthoods--pagan and christian--have often devoted their influence to the upholding of the great world-power; it is true that men called to be christian teachers forgot their function, and used their knowledge and power to bolster up the power of the beast and to make men worship the world, as though there were nothing higher for men to worship than this world could afford; it is true that they used, in later days, their powers to aggrandize the church rather than to reform the world and regenerate men: in so far as they did this they acted like the second wild beast; but the stretch of the vision embraces more than these. All who use their knowledge, their culture, their wisdom, to teach men that there is nothing worthy of worship save what they can see, and touch, and taste, are acting the part of the second wild beast; and be they apostles of science, or apostles of culture, or apostles of logical immorality, or apostles of what is called materialism, if their teaching leads men to limit their worship to the visible and the tangible, they are making men worship the beast who is the adversary of the servants of the lamb.

Please be reminded that the italic typeface above is excerpted from the commentaries on biblehub.

Some of you have commented that the Blake's images as viewed by modern society are "tame." However, once put in the proper context of the bible's interpretations, I can certainly empathize with the art student and his reactions -- and can see how this can impact others in a similar way. This is truly powerful material to those that have never been exposed to such images and underlying understandings. The key lies in one's ability to strengthen their own worship moving forward.

As always, comments are welcome.
rev_GOH

posthuman · Jul 14, 2022

Polar said:

because of the subject matter?
because of the style?
because of the color?

what makes them demonic?

demonic as in 'they portray demons' or 'they are the work of demons' or 'they are evil' or 'seeing them does the devil's work to the viewer' ?

posthuman · Jul 14, 2022

Blik said:

yes

if my faith is at risk if i admit Satan exists then i have bigger problems than artwork.

Bluesproverb · Jul 14, 2022

Blake said, "If the doors of perception were cleansed, every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite.”

I think he opened his perception by means at his disposal and that informed his art.

You're a fan or you're not. His work does not imperil anyone.

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