Why did Jesus ask the Father to forgive them?

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studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,607
551
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#61
Thread Title
Why did Jesus ask the Father to forgive them?

Jesus was actually fulfilling Isaiah's Prophecy of Intercessory Prayer ------

Isaiah 53:12 ----the Suffering Servant

Amplified Bible
Therefore, I will divide and give Him a portion with the great [kings and rulers], And He shall divide the spoils with the mighty, Because He [willingly] poured out His life to death, And was counted among the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore and took away the sin of many, And interceded [with the Father] for the transgressors.
 
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
43
#62
Thread Title
Why did Jesus ask the Father to forgive them?

Jesus was actually fulfilling Isaiah's Prophecy of Intercessory Prayer ------

Isaiah 53:12 ----the Suffering Servant

Amplified Bible
Therefore, I will divide and give Him a portion with the great [kings and rulers], And He shall divide the spoils with the mighty, Because He [willingly] poured out His life to death, And was counted among the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore and took away the sin of many, And interceded [with the Father] for the transgressors.
Yes this is true. The sentence "he was numbered with the transgressors" is fulfilled and what happened. It also supports what Jesus said, that they did not know what they were doing. Also, that prophecy, seeing they did not see, and hearing they did not understand. There is a lot to be said about the nature of evil in this.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,298
26,339
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#63
God needed them to reject Him. So He had Mercy upon them for fulfilling that purpose. He forgave them.
God needed them to reject Jesus, or knew that they would (just as they had killed the prophets that preceded Him)?

Matthew 21:33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard.
He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the
vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 34 When the harvest time approached,
he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.

35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.
36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated
them the same way. 37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him
and take his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
 
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
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#65
??????????????????? :rolleyes::oops::unsure:
To phrase it another way. Would they know they are committing the murder of an innocent man, or would they, being evil and endarkened think they are putting a malefactor to death? Numbered among the transgressors essentially, like that prophecy touched on earlier.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,701
113
#66
To phrase it another way. Would they know they are committing the murder of an innocent man, or would they, being evil and endarkened think they are putting a malefactor to death. Numbered among the transgressors essentially, like that prophecy touched on earlier.
Murder is sin.
No matter who the victim is. No matter who the perpetrator is.

It's not just sin for Christians... it is sin for everyone. This is why so many will go to hell.

Vengeance is the Lord's. Being outside of the Church is not a license to ignore the sovereignty of the Creator.

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 

Eli1

Well-known member
Apr 5, 2022
3,365
1,156
113
46
#67
Murder is sin.
No matter who the victim is. No matter who the perpetrator is.

It's not just sin for Christians... it is sin for everyone. This is why so many will go to hell.

Vengeance is the Lord's. Being outside of the Church is not a license to ignore the sovereignty of the Creator.

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
I totally agree with this but quick question.
‘Are you a gun owner?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,701
113
#68
I totally agree with this but quick question.
‘Are you a gun owner?
No.

They are fun to use for target practice, but I'm sure I would not shoot someone at this point in my life. I would leave things in God's hands. My Father wants me to trust that He will take care of things in His time and way.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,860
5,163
113
#69
had any of the leaders applied Isaiah 53, which is rather amazing we don't see Jesus using that Chapter for their understanding, but rather allowed their ignorance to rule them. and had they realized everything else they were witnessing was also prophesied and pointed towards the Messiah. they would have never Crucified Him. but clearly, God had blinded them concerning Isaiah 53 to believe the Messiah would come like we know He is to Come and Rule the Nations, for His Will to be done. and upon the Cross, we see the Mercy of God being displayed.

God needed them to reject Him. So He had Mercy upon them for fulfilling that purpose. He forgave them.
It was Gods plan and doing that they were made blind because of transgression against thoer covenant

in order for Isaiah 53 to be fulfilled Israel’s rulers and the majority of the people would need to reject Christ before he died and rose and then later many repented after he rose and converted but they had to reject and crucify him or he could t have been sent into all the world by the desolation of Israel in ad 67 which led to the Roman dispersion of the inhanbitants of Jerusalem. Where the gospel occurred and began being witnessed

to accomplish this God let them follow thier sins into desolation and blinded them because of thier rejection of his word

so 700 years before Christs birth Isaiah witnesses

“And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, and the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.”

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭6:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; And seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes they have closed; Lest at any time they should see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And should understand with their heart, And should be converted, and I should heal them. “
Matthew‬ ‭13:14-15,

see if they did t reject Jesus and condemn him to death the law could never have been fulfilled in his death for sin. And he would never have sent the disciples out to all nations so try the message of his death and resurrection and the whole message of the gospel of his kingdom that accompanies it the repentance and remission of sins he spoke forth for believers willing to hear and believe the gospel of the kingdom like the original rulers of isreal the ot law would not do , accept him , as an example for all they were left desolate that refused d never repented.

It’s all a smooth design that is hard to see because it unfolds over hundreds and hundreds of years from the beginning it was all designed to unfold like it did man fell into sin and death and then gods plan to save mankind began to be set in Motion

he begins to promise a male child that will overcome The serpent who deceived them ,( genesis 3:15 ) he would be a son of man , ( Daniel 7:13-14) son of eve , he would be a son of Abraham , ( genesis 22:18) a son of David , ( 1 chronicles 17:11,Luke 1:32) he would receive Gods spirit and speak Gods eternal judgements and words , (Isaiah 42:1-4) would suffer and die willingly as an atonement for mans sin ,( Isaiah 53) he would rise from death ( psalm 16:8-11, Acts 2:25-34) because he had no sin of his own and honored the father always even unto death and so the son lives beyond the grave As an example for the children of God to honor God and have thier sins remitted live forever beyond death with him

he would be taken into heaven and sit on the right hand of God until all creation was under his authority and dominion and rule and the power of his name ( psalm 110) and eventually he would return and renew all things and re establish creation as his dwelling place in both heaven and earth





For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:14-15, 17-23‬ ‭