And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

you cant be serious? what is preventing you from reading the other half of the same verse lol.

there is no consciousness in smoke no. but what about the part of the verse that says, they have no rest day nor night?

On the very Last Day the entire universe ends in fire at the Revelation of the Father's face. Where do you think all that fire goes for the new age of the Eternity? Where goes all the old corrupted creations that were in the kingdom of the Devil when the Creation that exists now is abolished into Fire Eternal? They do not disappear entirely. They are gathered together in a pool on the outer limits of the New Creation, burning forever with the old earth and the dragon that deceived them and that they spiritually joined the kingdom thereof in order to possess the old earth, and they shall have it indeed eternally on fire for Eternity has no end, the fire is not quenched. The believers of Jesus that overcame the old earth shall get their promise of the spiritual kingdom they desired too, and they will live face to face in paradise eternal with God in the Kingdom of the New Creation where no hurt will ever enter in, praising Jesus, amen.

what about the part of the verse that says, they have no rest day nor night?

This is an extensive study of the topic of hell for anyone interested. It's from a traditional biblical evangelical view. Please don't take the preacher's word for it, check it with Scripture in context.

https://www.kjv1611only.com/video/02preaching/Sermons_Pastor_Anderson/Hell_&_The_Second_Death_Preaching.mp4

Kleronomos,

Do you mind me asking, are you Seventh Day Adventist? The reason I ask is that I vaguely remember your view as similar to SDA .
I have SDA friends. I think that the video, approached from an open mind, may be a blessing.

How many times have we heard 'those who are not saved' will suffer ETERNAL TORMENT in the lake of fire? Would you believe that is NOT WRITTEN anywhere? I remember the first time I found out, I WAS angry, upset, incensed. Even people who know NOTHING else, seem to all know that. I was about to learn yet ANOTHER lesson...that 'meat' is so hard to chew sometimes especially when all you know is milk.


Rev 20:10 tells us

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Hopefully all can agree what we read here is

The Devil has been cast into the lake of fire and brimstone

the lake of fire and brimstone is where the false prophet and the beast were cast.

AND THE DEVIL shall be tormented forever,


Do we know anything else from what is written here? I don't, do you?


When we began to learn the words of God we learned,

Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

the wicked PERISH, by being consumed, turned into smoke, ascend up and away

No mention of eternal suffering in the lake of fire.

SO WHERE did it come from?

It didn't come from here
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

IN the presence of the Lamb and the holy angels, WOULD REQUIRE THEY BE WATCHED FOREVER, if indeed they were to NOT BE CONSUMED but again

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


WE know from the PSALM that the wicked perish BY BEING consumed into smoke. Here AGAIN, we are told THE SMOKE of their torment goes up for ever and ever.

Is there ANY CONSCIOUSNESS IN SMOKE? No.


Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


So we see SPECIFICALLY who 'for ever and ever, day and night' is referring to. If we go past this and APPLY it to souls, IS THAT GODS TRUTH or our own?

I believe it would be our own because when you combine that information with

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.



Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


I can't find a single verse that states souls themselves will be tormented, just the smoke left from the consuming of them, which ascends up forever.

Have I missed any important SCRIPTURES, anything WRITTEN that changes any of this THAT isn't just conjecture or assumption?

No, I am a Christian.

Paul addressed your first point, which I'm not getting the relevance of here. But, I'll address it. Paul said that God will judge those who never heard the gospel according to their own law.

To your second point, I'd say that "forever and ever" sounds like eternity. The Bible's actually fairly clear on this.

“Have I missed any important SCRIPTURES, anything WRITTEN that changes any of this”

yes you missed what the judge of all
Mankknd said regarding his return and the day of judgement of all mankind

“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

….. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:31-32, 41, 46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you just read the context of this

“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s clearly talking about people who serve Satan thier torment, they have no rest day or night

if you have no rest ever this should end the idea that we’re just snuffed out

of course this is one of those subjects people don’t change thier mind about even when Jesus said things plainly we tend to break down berses that seem to only support what we already think but objectively anyone that read this stuff would come to the same conclusion

yet we die on earth our living soul gets judged. And we’re going one of two destinations this spiritual teaching about the afterlife is pretty basic

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22-24‬

one man does and is taken into the kingdom after his body died and was buried he is alive with Abraham

another man died and was buried and he was alive in hell being tormented conscious and aware of his torment

Jesus doesn’t teach erroneous things whether one says “ this is an actual account of two men “ or one says “ this is a parable “ doesn’t matter a Lara me is a spiritual teaching the subject here shows us two places men go after they die one place is torment the other peace

Jesus isn’t going to use erroneous examples in his teachkngs

there’s an eternal home for Gods people after we leave this world and there’s an eye rub Al home for satans people after they leave this earth

children of God follow Christ home and children of the devil follow his parts home it will not be pretty for those who serve Satan on earth they will share in his inheritance just as Gods children will share in his

This earth is only temporary there is eternity afterwards

Thanks Kleronomos.
I don't know it all, but we know that this is a subject that God would want us all to know about. Fortunately, there's a lot of material for investigation in the Bible. If you're like me, I'm learning more all the time.
Have you come across that specific thing that Jesus saves us from when we believe on Him?

Not sure how the annihilationists explain away the fact that Jesus says that some punishment of the lost will be more tolerable than the the punishment others get.

If all the lost are annihilated by being tossed into the lake of fire, how could some suffering be more tolerable?

Are some going to be tortured for awhile and THEN tossed into the LOF?

I've got a teaching available that details from the Bible and tackles that Q if you like?

Not sure how the annihilationists explain away the fact that Jesus says that some punishment of the lost will be more tolerable than the the punishment others get.

If all the lost are annihilated by being tossed into the lake of fire, how could some suffering be more tolerable?

Are some going to be tortured for awhile and THEN tossed into the LOF?

Not sure how the annihilationists explain away the fact that Jesus says that some punishment of the lost will be more tolerable than the the punishment others get.

If all the lost are annihilated by being tossed into the lake of fire, how could some suffering be more tolerable?

Are some going to be tortured for awhile and THEN tossed into the LOF?

That's probably because the verse you're talking about doesn't say punishment, suffering, or torture. The verse you're talking about says judgment.

Matthew 10:15
15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Any other verses?