Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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you might be right! but i also see another view here no one ever addresses.

have you ever read John Wesley and others from 1500's to 1800's? they were always keeping quiet and hiding in homes and a different home each time they gathered in order to not get caught by either the RCC/Catholics/or the Government. so what we have Today, in "many denominations," that seem quiet and proper is the direct result of men of God fearing man rather than fearing God.


I never heard that about Wesley. He preached on unpopular topics, also. Theologically, he was very influential on Pentecostals, also.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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I never heard that about Wesley. He preached on unpopular topics, also. Theologically, he was very influential on Pentecostals, also.
his notes are more specific but even a simple google search provides this:


In his early ministry years, Wesley was barred from preaching in many parish churches and the Methodists were persecuted; he later became widely respected, and by the end of his life, was described as "the best-loved man in England".
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
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Other than the false tongues, the main error is their common teachings that one can be saved then lost again. And that one must keep themselves saved to make it to Heaven.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Other than the false tongues, the main error is their common teachings that one can be saved then lost again. And that one must keep themselves saved to make it to Heaven.
that ole Parable of the "Prodigal Son," who had glory and salvation, then THREW IT ALL AWAY [backslide]. let's stop there.

if the lost son remained backslidden, is he still saved?

or, was it when he repented and returned back to his father that he regained his position of salvation?


surely, had he remained backslidden and died, he had no salvation, true?
 
May 22, 2020
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Other than the false tongues, the main error is their common teachings that one can be saved then lost again. And that one must keep themselves saved to make it to Heaven.

Wow...are you saying one does not need to ....."maintain righteousness until the end" .......?(physical death).
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
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that ole Parable of the "Prodigal Son," who had glory and salvation, then THREW IT ALL AWAY [backslide]. let's stop there.

if the lost son remained backslidden, is he still saved?

or, was it when he repented and returned back to his father that he regained his position of salvation?


surely, had he remained backslidden and died, he had no salvation, true?
The New Testament teaches that we must continue in faith until the end.

However that being said, the parable is not about born again Christians and backsliding. It is a parable to teach the Pharisees that their attitude about being upset that sinners where eating with Jesus was wrong. He is saying they are like the elder brother in this parable and they should be glad that sinners who need to repent were interested in what Jesus was teaching.

But as to Christians that backslide and start drinking and fornicating and bar hopping. If they keep living that way they will go to hell.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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The New Testament teaches that we must continue in faith until the end.

However that being said, the parable is not about born again Christians and backsliding. It is a parable to teach the Pharisees that their attitude about being upset that sinners where eating with Jesus was wrong. He is saying they are like the elder brother in this parable and they should be glad that sinners who need to repent were interested in what Jesus was teaching.

But as to Christians that backslide and start drinking and fornicating and bar hopping. If they keep living that way they will go to hell.
Agreed and Amen!

but it can be about about Backsliding in a teaching sense of when we see the son was in a place of reward, and then chose to leave until he saw his life was crashing and returned back.
 

Amanuensis

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2021
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Agreed and Amen!

but it can be about about Backsliding in a teaching sense of when we see the son was in paradise and chose to leave until he saw his life and returned back.
I agree that God's willingness to restore the worst of the backslider who is sincerely repentant is included in the lesson.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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No one threw any stones, so your statement is exaggerative. But Jesus said to judge with a righteous judgment, and that's what we're doing. We are merely observing what's in front of us as others have done, and acknowledging the truth about the matter. How else can one avoid getting deceived? If someone (like Jesus or John the B.) said to someone "you brood of vipers," would you then claim he is throwing stones?
I never said they did and the word exaggerative doesn't exist.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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I never said that we weren't
First you said you heard Benny Hinn repent with your own ears. Then when I posted ironclad proof that he didn't really repent you said we shouldn't throw stones.

Granted, he did make a repentance of sorts. And also granted you heard it. But it wasn't sincere and he didn't truly repent.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
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First you said you heard Benny Hinn repent with your own ears. Then when I posted ironclad proof that he didn't really repent you said we shouldn't throw stones.

Granted, he did make a repentance of sorts. And also granted you heard it. But it wasn't sincere and he didn't truly repent.
That is not for me to judge.
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
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"repentence" means to "turn from" or "turn against" something. In other words, you STOP doing what you're doing instead of merely denouncing or being "sorry" for it. It is obvious, from seeing ResidentAlien's second video, that Mr. Benny Hinn did not "turn from" bilking people out of money.