Dispensationalism...

Dogs and beans do not act as replies to the questions

Hi

The answer is tribulation is not God's wrath.

In the world you will have tribulation. That's where it comes from .... always, it is persecution.

Yup. I've said over and over that we will have tribulation FROM MEN.

But we will NOT be here when God gives wrath and tribulations to the fallen world that refused to repent.

What contradiction? can you explain?

and "if yuor correct" just because it can mean perpetual. does it mean it has to? What about ALL YOUR GENERATIONS??

as for how long. Have you studied lev 26? What did God promise would happen if Israel sinned? then what did God promise would happen if they repented?

if I may ask.

what does this have to do with a future restoration of Israel AFTER they have repented and are returned BY God himself into their land.

The israel today has not repented. they are still in sin.. they have NOT yet been restored. Nor have events which are supposed to precede their restoration (the time of Jacob's trouble, or great tribulation and Jesus called it. The time of the gentile being completed. The return of the king. and so many other things?

actually all people on earth are blessed through the seed which came through Abraham according to the Abraham covenant.

that seed was Christ, you are correct.

God keeps his word, we should never forget that. WHen he says, I WILL, he does

we went to the Ohio State fair with grandkids last night. Hottest day of the week. I had dogs and fries.. and a watered down diet coke..

tribulation is caused in part to Gods wrath. even the kings of the earth in that day will acknowledge it

rev 6: 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, [j]the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Tribulation in the bible always refers to men or the world. God's wrath comes upon the tribulators.

Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days ..... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather His elect from the four corners ..."

Jesus was post trib.

How do you see that meaning "men of the world" when Matthew 24:9 say's "my names sake" ? Wouldn't that mean Jesus is referring to Christians? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 24&version=KJV

absolutely

We are 100% agreed that we cannot be subject to God's wrath.

That's what I was thinking is there's not any way that the events in the siege of Jerusalem(ad70) could apply to Matthew 24:9 because none of them believed Jesus was the Messiah and so they didn't die for his names sake...

Preterism is a strange theology. At Olivet the disciples asked the Lord 3 distinct questions, about the temple, about His coming and about the end of the age, Jesus answers all 3 questions in compendium form so that the prophecy concerning the temple happened in 70 ad but the other 2 questions are yet to come to pass.

The Great Tribulation, as previously stated, generally refers to the 7 yr period starting with the anti christ affirming a covenant.

The 1st 3.5 yrs of which we will suffer tribulation.
In the middle of the 7 yr period, at the end of the 3.5 yrs, he will sit in the temple proclaiming himself to be God. At that moment, there is precisely 3.5 yrs left until Jesus returns.

If we are here when he sits in that temple, we will KNOW the day and the hour of Christ's return.

Jesus says we will NOT know the day and the hour.

So we cannot still be here when the anti christ sits in the temple.

I agree pretty much the end of the age though to them as Jews may not have meant "end of the world" but as in Judaism they saw an age being one of the seven one thousand year days from Genesis 2:4 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-4.htm and so they would have seen an age/aeon of time as an generation like is in Genesis 2:4 "toledoth" https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8435.htm and so Jesus is answering their direct question with "this generation shall not pass.." meaning that the third day would not end and the fourth begin till they were fulfilled. That's Jewish thinking though which is why they are numbering the years differently than the rest of the world(to them this is 5782 so the end of the sixth day/age and about to be the beginning of the seventh). The book of Jubilees is a good example of their thinking where it covers 120 Jubilees so 120x50=6000... Anyway if you discuss this with someone Jewish to them six days thou shall labor and on the seventh rest ect. is representing six one thousand year days(mankind labors in the earth) and the the seventh(Sabbath) they rest.

remember the word Jesus spake "for the the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."

But it is when he sits in the temple saying he is himself God that the Lord descends from heaven wiv a shout ... he is slain in the temple.

But that is the END of his career not the beginning. He will have prior to this have opposed everything called god or is worshipped as God. That means YOU he is going to oppose you ... he is going to come after christians, the holocaust will seem like a picnic compared to this end time persecution when even children will give up their own parents to death and parents their children.

How awful IS this, it's the Great Tribulation.

I don't believe the most of us will be raptured, I believe the most of us will be martyred.

The church is not ready for this.

Remember the crowd John saw in heaven who no man could number, he is told "these are they who have come out of great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" doesn't say so but I believe they are martyrs.

I probably will not be alive then but it is going to be close run for it's coming on at speed and will happen suddenly, like a trap springing shut. The trib begins with Antichrist being revealed and the great rebellion.

Depends if you believe the Millennium as a new age or merely a completion of the gospel age. The fact that Paul speaks of ages to come denotes time and not eternity. There is a divergence between Paul's understanding and the Jewish understanding. Only Paul understood the rapture.

Let me ask something else about Matthew 24:3 (depends on how we see it verses how those disciples saw it) when they ask Jesus about "what is the sign of your coming" do you think they were meaning his coming as the Messiah they expected or were they referring to his "second coming" like we think?

Think about this for a minute because although Jesus had told them about his death "they understood it not" ,,,and so in all four Gospels(Matthew,Mark,Luke and John) if you remember after Jesus was Crucified the Apostles and disciples act as if they didn't know anything about an "second coming" to them they thought...

The gardener had moved his body(thought he was dead),,,Thomas said he would not believe it was Jesus unless he put his fingers in the nail holes ect....(believed he was dead) even when Jesus appeared to them they thought he was a spirit.... so ask yourself how could they ask him about an second coming when at that time in their lives they didn't even realize Jesus was going to die then rise from the grave and ascend to heaven and then return a second time? Anyway look at what they thought... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-3.htm

This is the tricky one and shows the supremacy of Holy Spirit revelation in the scriptures. Amillenials follow the Jewish understanding that our Lord's next coming is to consumate the world, they see the resurrection of the dead and the last judgement.

But Paul saw clearly the intermediate stage of the resurrection as shown in 1. Cor. 15. The Revelator also saw it in chapter 20. There is first to be the resurrection of the just, those who are Christ's at His coming or the first resurrection in Revs 20 ... blessed and happy are they who partake in the first resurrection.

Then comes the 1, 000 years "for He must first reign until all rule and powers and authorities are put under His feet" Then comes the end.

Paul understood it because only he had the revelation of the church planted among the nations, a thing unthinkable to the Jews. The church for them must always be centralised in Jerusalem.

The church being planted among the nations is what necessitates the removal of the church before God's wrath falls upon the nations.

So the Holy Spirit saw what the disciples did not see.

Amillennials almost never quote Paul and avoid the rapture like it was a rash.