And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

This what Jesus say

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

eternal punishment

also the story Lazarus and rich man in hell. Rich man fell thirsty and ask Abraham send Lazarus to bring a drop of water, rich man not cease to exist

Here is the meaning of torments as used in Luke and the rest of the New Testament

Torment Strong's Concordance New Testament Greek

#928

1) to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal

2) to question by applying torture

3) to torture

4) to vex with grievous pains (of body or mind), to torment

5) to be harassed, distressed

5a) of those who at sea are struggling with a head wind

Part of Speech:verb

Relation:from G931

Usage:

This word is used12 times:

Matthew 8:6: "home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented."
Matthew 8:29: "Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before"
Matthew 14:24: "in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the"
Mark 5:7: "of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me"
Mark 6:48: "And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind"
Luke 8:28: "Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me"
2 Peter 2:8: "in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to"
Revelation 9:5: "them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their"
Revelation 11:10: "these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."
Revelation 12:2: "she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."
Revelation 14:10: "of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone"
Revelation 20:10: "the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever"




Strong's #929: basanismos (pronounced bas-an-is-mos')

from 928; torture:--torment.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

́basanismos

1) to torture, a testing by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal

2) torment, torture

2a) the act of tormenting

2b) the state or condition of those tormented

Part of Speech: noun masculine

Relation: from G928




Strong's #931: basanos (pronounced bas'-an-os)

perhaps remotely from the same as 939 (through the notion of going to the bottom); a touch-stone, i.e. (by analogy) torture:--torment.

1) a touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal

2) the rack or instrument of torture by which one is forced to divulge the truth

3) torture, torment, acute pains

3a) of the pains of a disease

3b) of those in hell after death

Part of Speech: noun masculine

Relation: perhaps remotely from the same as G939 (through the notion of going to the bottom)

Usage:

This word is used 3 times:

Matthew 4:24: "that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and"
Luke 16:23: "eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off,"
Luke 16:28: "into this place of torment."




Strong's #2851: kolasis (pronounced kol'-as-is)

from 2849; penal infliction:--punishment, torment.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

́kolasis

1) correction, punishment, penalty

Part of Speech: noun feminine

Relation: from G2849

Citing in TDNT: 3:816, 451

Usage:

This word is used 2 times:


Matthew 25:46: "shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into"
1 John 4:18: "because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect"

Let’s be clear here. Adam and Eve hid in the garden among the trees. That isn’t what death is.

Someone said to me that death is separation from God and yes the eternal torment doctrine requires death not be literal in the Bible. If death is literal then the whole eternal torment doctrine falls apart.

Again, there’s nothing about death being a separation from God in the Bible. However, if you or anyone has proof to the contrary I’m interested.

The proof is in God's word. I assume that you believe it to be true.

1 Corinthians 15:
…21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive

Genesis 2:
16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

Genesis 3:
4“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her.

7And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; so they sewed together fig leaves and made coverings for themselves.

8Then the man and his wife heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the breeze of the day, and they hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

Ephesians 2:

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience.

Death is literal but it obviously is not physical. Neither is it mental, emotional or of the will. People can still think, feel and choose. So there is only one part of man left. That is his spirit. That is the part that is dead in trespass and sin. That is the part that is made alive When we are born again.

Still not convinced?

Isaiah 59

2But your wickedness has separated you from your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

It seem some believe not all unsaved go to eternal punishment, they believe some are cease to exist

my question is who go to eternal punishment who cease to exist?

Your doctrine of eternal torment was designed by the devil to either scare people into church

God wants people to come to Him because they love Him. Our God is merciful and righteous and doesn’t eternally torment all of the unsaved for anything.

I’m still not convinced about death being separation from God. Sin separates people from God, but it’s nuanced. God has different types of presences and manifests in ways that can be either seen or unseen.

God is omnipresent and knows the thoughts and intentions of all people from the chiefest sinner to the holiest saint. In that sense God is present. The difference is that God listens to one and doesn’t listen to the other, yet it’s still nuanced. God hears all prayers, but doesn’t regard or dignify them all.

Otherwise when an unrepentant sinner finally comes to Christ God would be incapable of hearing their prayer.

While the wages of sin is death that’s in reference to the judgement. If someone is judged by their sins then what they’ve earned is death. We aren’t judged until a later time post-resurrection.

Death is plainly death. Still not convinced?

Because people can lose their entire body in hell.

They'll be burned up and completely reduced to ashes.

There is no immortality in hell.

Why lose your entire body if losing a hand or eye will prevent that?

Matthew 10:28
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Better question.... do you believe Jesus wants us to chop our hands and feet off and gouge our eyeballs out? seriously? would you do it?

I am glad to see you ask a real question instead of telling someone or multiple people that they are trying to change things by posting information or questing what they post

If you will take the time I am just about finished with a bible study on Ezekel 44 that covers a lot of that. From Ezekel 40 to the end there is more about the millennium than in the book of Revelation.

Let’s put the scriptures in harmony. So none of them say all of the unsaved receive eternal conscious torment, but the rest say they perish. Sometimes it says they are destroyed or they have death.

So given the evidence of the majority of scriptures against one or two verses, what is the eternal punishment?

yes, the eternal torment crowd requires the definition of punishment to be changed to torment in Matthew 25:46, but the word torment is an entirely different word than punishment in the New Testament.

Let’s put the scriptures in harmony. So none of them say all of the unsaved receive eternal conscious torment, but the rest say they perish. Sometimes it says they are destroyed or they have death.

So given the evidence of the majority of scriptures against one or two verses, what is the eternal punishment?

Why on earth would Satan want to "scare people into church"?

You have no excuse. Dan 12:2 speaks of ETERNAL CONTEMPT. That is an experience. Matt 25:46 speaks of ETERNAL PUNISHMENT. That is an experience.

So both verse are CLEAR that what is in store for all unbelievers is an EXPERIENCE of contempt and punishment. That means for ever and ever, just as Rev 20:10 states.


Contempt. That is the punishment, from the Bible. And btw, there are NO verses which are "against" 1 of 2 verses.

What a ridiculous comment. The whole Bible is in perfect harmony. Whatever 1 verse says in plain language is not contradicted in any other verse, much less "the majority of Scriptures". Pure hogwash.

I’m still not convinced about death being separation from God. Sin separates people from God, but it’s nuanced. God has different types of presences and manifests in ways that can be either seen or unseen.

God is omnipresent and knows the thoughts and intentions of all people from the chiefest sinner to the holiest saint. In that sense God is present. The difference is that God listens to one and doesn’t listen to the other, yet it’s still nuanced. God hears all prayers, but doesn’t regard or dignify them all.

Otherwise when an unrepentant sinner finally comes to Christ God would be incapable of hearing their prayer.

While the wages of sin is death that’s in reference to the judgement. If someone is judged by their sins then what they’ve earned is death. We aren’t judged until a later time post-resurrection.

Death is plainly death. Still not convinced?

The phrase I put in bold is not true.

They did not die of a physical death in the very next moment, they actually got to live a lot of years on earth, but separated from God (spiritual death): they used to live in the garden Eden and after their sin, they have been chased out of heaven (being chased out of Eden means being separated from God). So, the first death Adam and Eve experienced, was not the physical one, but the spiritual one. After a couple of years, during which Adam and Eve had a lot of sons and daughters, they suffered of the physical death, too. Death is the consequence of sin. God is life; death and life cannot coexist. God incarnated in order to reverse what man has done to himself: spiritual and physical death. Just as Adam died first of a spiritual death, so is the new man in Christ experiencing first a spiritual resurrection. Than his body dies and, at the second coming of Christ man will experience the complete resurrection: that of the body too.

There are three kinds of death in the Bible: spiritual, physical, and the second death (eternal torment). Adam and Eve experienced death in the following order: first spiritual, then physical. They did not experience what Revelations calls 'the second death', which is ultimate and irreversible. The first two kinds of death (spiritual and physical) are reversible.



... I did not invent the expression 'second death'... it's in the Bible, in the very verses about the devil, demons and false prophets being cast into the lake of fire, as a 'second death'.

You mean, you posting about that subject here ?

And if hell mean cease to exist, more drug user chose go to hell, one of my drug user neighbor kill himself
i talk to his mom, do you know why, she say “ his life is like hell(suffer)” so he think kill himself is avoid suffer, because hell mean cease to exist?

so this doctrine have vested interest, design by devil to invite more people to hell

Death is death

some go to heaven some go to eternal punishment

death is not cease to exist