Abusing Religious Authority or The Narcissist and God

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P

Polar

Guest
#41
There's a video I showed earlier in another thread.

The long time senior pastor had been caught and was about to get outed for seducing and having sexual relationships with underage girls.
The girls grew up and were telling how they were sexually abused by him.
One of these girls came out in front of the congregation to confront him.

And the Pastor acted disgusted and as if it was all her fault....what she did was egregious while his role was so minor.

And the part that disgusted me and horrified me at the same time was the congregation's support of the pedophile.
It's beyond horrendous. Just cover up the sin and it will all go away. I don't get how anyone living a double life like that can carry on Sunday morning as though they were the model of Christianity and yet it happens over and over. They must have the conscience that is seared over by sin as the Bible describes.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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#42
Well using scripture as a weapon is pretty much what I am getting at. And probably cherry picked and out of context , right? In other words cultish behavior that attributes what they write as though it came straight from heaven with God's blessing. There are entire churches that are run that way. And there are people in this forum that take over threads and bully everyone else; twist what people say and then when folks get upset over that, they report them. And there you have a vacation. Not Air B & B either.

So, I am asking how to deal with folks when they behave that way. No use getting upset. It feeds the ego of the individual getting a kick out of seeing his handiwork come to fruition.

You know, I think most of us on here are probably ok even if sometimes we have the wrong interpretations, we are open to understanding where we went wrong. (hopefully. ) God is patient, loving and kind and does not snark at us and tell us to go read the Bible when we might have our own ideas about something. On the other hand, those that do that sort of thing, are often the very people that need to go and read the Bible themselves.

So do we ignore these people? Might as well because they are not going to change. Snarking back is their breakfast and dinner and they will take advantage of anything you say that can be used against you. People avoid the BDF like the plague because of this sort of thing but I personally want to discuss the Bible and our life in Christ. When the most basic of Christian doctrines are twisted and Christ is left out, the thread becomes a black hole where the truth disappears and nothing comes back out.
I would like to make a few observations. Not to be just critical but hopefully helpful.

I have posted, endless posts, about how a discussion, on these threads, seems nearly impossible. You don't have to be here long, before you realize, that posters want to get across their points of view at any cost. This is a departure from normal concepts of a discussion and leaves one with a "shoutout" post or an opinion post. Sadly, this seems to be what this society has degenerated into. People shouting at people. It's everywhere - Social media, Politics, Religion... you name it. The true art of discussion is fading away - just as predicted. 2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts;

It is this very thing, I speak against, I teach against and post against. The Word of God, is the only authority the true believer has, when it comes to a discussion. Everything someone says, no matter their title, MUST be compared to Holy Writ. Just as vital, one must depart, from their interpretation, when encountering verses of Scripture that say otherwise. No matter how difficult or shocking that Truth maybe. This is how one arrives at "Sound Doctrine". It was failure to do just that, that lead to the misunderstanding and perversion of the Word by the Jews.

You have brought up the issue of Narcissism. You, my friend, have one foot in Psychology and the other in Scripture. Every true believer should depart from any form of manmade doctrine. Psychology and Sociology are manmade doctrines. Made-up to explain man's fallen nature because they reject what Scripture teaches. So they give us one phobia after another or one mental illness after the other. Flee from such nonsense, which has Psychologist, who are lovers of self - trying to aid other self-lovers.

Scripture clearly teaches, that mankind, after the Fall, is a lover of self. Mankind loves itself and hates God. Therefore, it is not just one or two, that act out of selflove, it is all of us. We love our truth and hate God's Truth. Only through God's Grace, in Salvation, can one overcome this and the love of God and His Christ and His Truth be restored.

When we discuss God's Truth - we are putting our interpretation to the test. Those whom agree - say Amen. Those whom are opposed, give a counter argument. This then, should lead to a calm discussion, between two believers, who have the same desire. NOT to prove their point... but through the discussion, to be edified and come closer to THE TRUTH. Therefore, glorifying God and receiving greater blessing. This can only occur, when two or more, within the discussion, have the same goals. That is - To better understand the Father, His Plan, His Son and the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the End Times. TRUTH!!!

If one enters into a discussion, to learn nothing, then it is not a discussion; rather, that one is using others as a sounding board. In a proper discussion, one gives their side, the other gives their side. If they do not agree, then one side asks questions and the other answers and it goes back and forth. NOT till we have a winner but until the two sides either come together or they reach an understanding.

Sadly, my experience has been, that when I ask serious questions, the other side flees or they degenerates into throwing verses around wildly or even name calling. In this case, I suggest we use Christ as our example. Either, do not answer or answer with another question.

I hope this was useful to you.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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#43
I cannot deal with them if the truth be known...
I do not even want to make a thread about anything because I have seen with my own eyes , even the simplest thread can get torn to pieces...

I think you have made some valid points...
Am off out now as my family have organized a celebration for my birthday , I am 61 today :giggle:...
I will re-read your wh0le post when I get back home , I think a lot of people on here should , but some might feel exposed , and that is a good thing...
...xox...
HAPPY BIRTHDAY. :love: You are closer to being with the Lord, than when you first believed. Have a blessed day.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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#44
We all, to whatever degree, believe that our view of what Scripture teaches is the correct view.

Some may be right, others potentially deluded, but I don't think tagging people with names like narcissist etc is Christian. We aren't licensed psychologists with an indepth study of the person/ people in question.

That said, often online I just get the feeling of the community being a haunt for every evil thing, and not necessarily Christian because of some of this negative behavior.

I honestly don't know how to appropriately address some people as a result... I guess learning how to have actual discussion with these certain personality types would be great, but I haven't learned how yet.

By the way, I am running a high fever and am a bit on the delirious side so forgive my rambling. I have come down fairly hard with COVID for the first time.
May it be found, in the Good Lord above, to restore you again to good health.
 
P

Polar

Guest
#45
I would like to make a few observations. Not to be just critical but hopefully helpful.

I have posted, endless posts, about how a discussion, on these threads, seems nearly impossible. You don't have to be here long, before you realize, that posters want to get across their points of view at any cost. This is a departure from normal concepts of a discussion and leaves one with a "shoutout" post or an opinion post. Sadly, this seems to be what this society has degenerated into. People shouting at people. It's everywhere - Social media, Politics, Religion... you name it. The true art of discussion is fading away - just as predicted. 2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts;

It is this very thing, I speak against, I teach against and post against. The Word of God, is the only authority the true believer has, when it comes to a discussion. Everything someone says, no matter their title, MUST be compared to Holy Writ. Just as vital, one must depart, from their interpretation, when encountering verses of Scripture that say otherwise. No matter how difficult or shocking that Truth maybe. This is how one arrives at "Sound Doctrine". It was failure to do just that, that lead to the misunderstanding and perversion of the Word by the Jews.

You have brought up the issue of Narcissism. You, my friend, have one foot in Psychology and the other in Scripture. Every true believer should depart from any form of manmade doctrine. Psychology and Sociology are manmade doctrines. Made-up to explain man's fallen nature because they reject what Scripture teaches. So they give us one phobia after another or one mental illness after the other. Flee from such nonsense, which has Psychologist, who are lovers of self - trying to aid other self-lovers.

Scripture clearly teaches, that mankind, after the Fall, is a lover of self. Mankind loves itself and hates God. Therefore, it is not just one or two, that act out of selflove, it is all of us. We love our truth and hate God's Truth. Only through God's Grace, in Salvation, can one overcome this and the love of God and His Christ and His Truth be restored.

When we discuss God's Truth - we are putting our interpretation to the test. Those whom agree - say Amen. Those whom are opposed, give a counter argument. This then, should lead to a calm discussion, between two believers, who have the same desire. NOT to prove their point... but through the discussion, to be edified and come closer to THE TRUTH. Therefore, glorifying God and receiving greater blessing. This can only occur, when two or more, within the discussion, have the same goals. That is - To better understand the Father, His Plan, His Son and the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the End Times. TRUTH!!!

If one enters into a discussion, to learn nothing, then it is not a discussion; rather, that one is using others as a sounding board. In a proper discussion, one gives their side, the other gives their side. If they do not agree, then one side asks questions and the other answers and it goes back and forth. NOT till we have a winner but until the two sides either come together or they reach an understanding.

Sadly, my experience has been, that when I ask serious questions, the other side flees or they degenerates into throwing verses around wildly or even name calling. In this case, I suggest we use Christ as our example. Either, do not answer or answer with another question.

I hope this was useful to you.
Did you miss the op? It contains pertinent scripture. There are many qualified and godly individuals who apply the word with a better understanding of the mind that you do and they will apply a spiritual component to the problems people may have,.

As the narcissist seldom sees themself for what they are, it is the people they affect who desire counselling or help dealing with the games these people play. Some people seem to fear or disallow that God, in His wisdom, has provided such for people need help.

Did I find your remarks useful? Not personally but you are entitled to your opinion. You are also free to start your own thread wherein you can disallow for any sort of medical or mental health.

I have posted, endless posts, about how a discussion, on these threads, seems nearly impossible.
I have never read a thing you posted. Until now.
 
P

Polar

Guest
#46
OK. I understand why you wrote what you did much better now having checked out some of your posts.

You are a Calvinist.

If one enters into a discussion, to learn nothing, then it is not a discussion; rather, that one is using others as a sounding board. In a proper discussion, one gives their side, the other gives their side. If they do not agree, then one side asks questions and the other answers and it goes back and forth. NOT till we have a winner but until the two sides either come together or they reach an understanding.
Oh boy. I think you need to start your own forum in order to achieve that perfection you believe is yours. ;)
 
P

Polar

Guest
#47
There is a book by the name of 'Boundaries' which has been mentioned a number of times by a few people here and I have read that book myself years back.

I suggest it a good book to get for those who are having difficulties in relationships with people who are overbearing and basically suck the air out of the room.

Published by Zondervan and written with a Christian understanding of the realities of this world and how to deal in a Christ-like manner with impossible people.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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#48
Did you miss the op? It contains pertinent scripture. There are many qualified and godly individuals who apply the word with a better understanding of the mind that you do and they will apply a spiritual component to the problems people may have,.

As the narcissist seldom sees themself for what they are, it is the people they affect who desire counselling or help dealing with the games these people play. Some people seem to fear or disallow that God, in His wisdom, has provided such for people need help.

Did I find your remarks useful? Not personally but you are entitled to your opinion. You are also free to start your own thread wherein you can disallow for any sort of medical or mental health.



I have never read a thing you posted. Until now.
Thank You! For proving the point of my post. It was intended to be helpful but you took it only as criticism of you personally.

You now respond, by attacking me personally. Again proving what I said in the post is truth. You attack me because I hold to the Doctrines of Grace or as many often call it - Calvinism. I wonder why they don't call it - Augustinism or Lutherism or Pinkism or Gillism? Oh well.

You Sir or Mam, or a HYPOCRIT. Have a nice day.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
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#49
My congregation was blessed to have our pastor for 33 years ~ truly a wonderful man of God, in fact, a very holy man of God. The pastor who replaced him presented himself in like manner and we were elated to have found another diamond in the rough. Unfortunately our fairytale story didn’t last. It didn’t take long for the new pastor’s true colors to show.

One Sunday morning less than six months after being installed, he ambushed me and verbally assaulted me, and I mean he was vicious. I didn’t argue with him but rather apologized for making him so upset though I had done nothing wrong.

I spoke with a few church elders trying to gain understanding. Perhaps he was dealing with something in life that was overwhelming and causing him to be irrational. Turns out he was a narcissistic egomaniac with a god complex and I was just another one of his victims.

Proceedings took place regarding his abusive behavior and he took no accountability but rather blamed all of us “peasants”. He was put on probation and instructed to meet with the elders for counseling but it was all in vain. He wasn’t able to change his spots and was fired not too long afterwards. He’s blessed that’s the only thing that happened to him.
 
P

Polar

Guest
#50
Thank You! For proving the point of my post. It was intended to be helpful but you took it only as criticism of you personally.

You now respond, by attacking me personally. Again proving what I said in the post is truth. You attack me because I hold to the Doctrines of Grace or as many often call it - Calvinism. I wonder why they don't call it - Augustinism or Lutherism or Pinkism or Gillism? Oh well.

You Sir or Mam, or a HYPOCRIT. Have a nice day.
Dude

You are far more impressed with your own recognizance that I could ever be. Oh you feel attacked because I went to see the body of your work in this forum? You don't like being recognized as a Calvinist and feel that is a personal attack? What you believe colors every aspect of your life, and in the case of Calvinism, you present the idea you have the superior POV and if others, in this case me, don't see how superior you are, then we must be attacking you.

Oh if you only knew how common that reaction is.

Nah. I'm not the hypocrite here, but you did live up to my expectations.

You spelled hypocrite wrong. :giggle:
 
P

Polar

Guest
#51
My congregation was blessed to have our pastor for 33 years ~ truly a wonderful man of God, in fact, a very holy man of God. The pastor who replaced him presented himself in like manner and we were elated to have found another diamond in the rough. Unfortunately our fairytale story didn’t last. It didn’t take long for the new pastor’s true colors to show.

One Sunday morning less than six months after being installed, he ambushed me and verbally assaulted me, and I mean he was vicious. I didn’t argue with him but rather apologized for making him so upset though I had done nothing wrong.

I spoke with a few church elders trying to gain understanding. Perhaps he was dealing with something in life that was overwhelming and causing him to be irrational. Turns out he was a narcissistic egomaniac with a god complex and I was just another one of his victims.

Proceedings took place regarding his abusive behavior and he took no accountability but rather blamed all of us “peasants”. He was put on probation and instructed to meet with the elders for counseling but it was all in vain. He wasn’t able to change his spots and was fired not too long afterwards. He’s blessed that’s the only thing that happened to him.
Narcissists or abusive people will ALWAYS present themself as helpful and nice at first. They also enjoy a good ambush, which you experienced first hand. An apology is always expected of course. I'm not a wallflower but I certainly did at one time, do my best to get along with everyone until that demanded me either lying or playing dead. God demands neither from us.

Anyway, as I have stated several times now, and which you are probably aware of, those in the circle of a narcissistic personality, will be floundering until they understand it really is not them but the narcissist. As Christians, we want to care for others, be kind to others, pray for others and support them. That can create double jeopardy for the believer who at first tends to think there must be some way to get along with this person or they wonder 'what did I do?'

What did you do? You breathed independently of the person with the 'god complex'. ;)

Revenge is not in order, yelling and arguing is not in order (doesn't work anyway), reasoning only works if you acknowledge it is your fault they acted how they did.

Sadly, Christians too often find the only answer is to walk away, as the firing of your ex pastor proved. Counselling? they will only lie if they ever agree to go in the first place. These are realities and not the exception. As I began this op with the scripture from II Timothy, this first sentence : But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come. We've arrived.

People with years and years of experience in counselling with those who have been played by a narcissist and dealing with the narcissist individual, will pretty much tell you there is no hope.

There is hope, always, with God of course, but involves our behavior and reactions and we can learn to deal with this type of personality in a godly way for our own good if not for theirs. James 5 : 19Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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#52
There is so much putting down of other people here that the oxygen is sucked out of some threads

Countering with scripture IN CONTEXT I don't have a problem with. It's the God told me to tell you crowd that makes me shiver :cautious:
I think we know that the light of Christ is a beacon to Devil's opposed to his truth.

In a nutshell, Jesus
said no one comes to him unless the father leads them. In our natural mind state as those dead in our sins, we cannot understand the things of the spirit.

Makes sense when we are separated from God by our fallen nature.
Then God sends his spirit into his Elect, so that we may understand and be saved. Eternally. Because the free gift of faith and eternal salvation are irrevocable.

God died to give that gift. We are regenerated,a new creation in Christ for it, and ate born again. Only this time we are not separated from God. Because God is in us.
And will never leave us.

How the Devil hates that.
And calls it a lie.

Narcissism would insist all that God said in scripture, in that nutshell, is a lie.

That the natural man/woman can choose to come to Jesus because we want to. Knowing we need to. And then, our actions will lead God to enter us. And lead us to all understanding.

Make sense?
 
P

Polar

Guest
#53
I think we know that the light of Christ is a beacon to Devil's opposed to his truth.

In a nutshell, Jesus
said no one comes to him unless the father leads them. In our natural mind state as those dead in our sins, we cannot understand the things of the spirit.

Makes sense when we are separated from God by our fallen nature.
Then God sends his spirit into his Elect, so that we may understand and be saved. Eternally. Because the free gift of faith and eternal salvation are irrevocable.

God died to give that gift. We are regenerated,a new creation in Christ for it, and ate born again. Only this time we are not separated from God. Because God is in us.
And will never leave us.

How the Devil hates that.
And calls it a lie.

Narcissism would insist all that God said in scripture, in that nutshell, is a lie.

That the natural man/woman can choose to come to Jesus because we want to. Knowing we need to. And then, our actions will lead God to enter us. And lead us to all understanding.

Make sense?

Hey Blues

I want to be clear on understanding you

Are you saying that the unsaved are narcissists by the very fact they are unsaved? I'm not quite sure about it. thanks
 
Jun 28, 2022
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#54
Hey Blues

I want to be clear on understanding you

Are you saying that the unsaved are narcissists by the very fact they are unsaved? I'm not quite sure about it. thanks
Sure. I'll hope to be more clear here .😊💕

I was referring to those who think to rewrite the Bible by giving the ego power and authority to overcome God's plan of Salvation.

Believing we can choose Christ by free will.

And in some cases there are those who also think we can choose to relinquish our salvation.
None of which is in the Bible. Yet it stands to reason when the narcissist insists ego can overcome God, it can also relinquish God.

Egocentrism. Narcissistic.

Fallen man,contrary to what God says of us, can choose to tell God he's wrong. We can save ourselves.

Which was the meaning of my post as pertains to the particulars of God's actual Gospel:
''In a nutshell, Jesus
said no one comes to him unless the father leads them. In our natural mind state as those dead in our sins, we cannot understand the things of the spirit.

Makes sense when we are separated from God by our fallen nature.
Then God sends his spirit into his Elect, so that we may understand and be saved. Eternally. Because the free gift of faith and eternal salvation are irrevocable.

God died to give that gift. We are regenerated,a new creation in Christ for it, and are born again. Only this time we are not separated from God. Because God is in us.
And will never leave us.''

The narcissist cannot understand the things of God.

Because narcissism is the fault in the fallen human nature that sees 'I', self as God. Which is displayed by that personality that insists they can choose to save themselves.
And when they choose, that's when God steps in.

The narcissists good news they're in control.
 

Shepherd

Active member
May 11, 2022
248
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#55
.................That the natural man/woman can choose to come to Jesus because we want to. Knowing we need to. And then, our actions will lead God to enter us. And lead us to all understanding................
Polar, did you ever say that on one of these posts? I certainly did not. Allow me again:

The Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement. Here's an example of this happening....
Acts 24
24And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. 25And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

No one just "decides one day to come to Jesus" without the Holy Ghost "drawing" them. Now you can say that "draw" means "drag" if you want, but the fact is the Holy Spirit did have some effect on Mr. Felix, so much so that he "trembled", so he did have some "pull" there, but certainly did not "drag" or Felix would have been saved right then and there. So let me explain "sin righteousness and judgement as succinctly as I knwo how. paul told Felix that He was a sinner, but the perfect, Holy Lamb of God, Jesus died for his sins and was his only hope. Otherwise he was on his way to Hell for all eternity. Apparently that scared him and that's why the guy "trembled". Back to your quote above; a man can't just "choose" one day and say "i think I'll become a Christian". No, you have to hear the word of God and be "wooed" by the Holy Ghost. Did that happen to you? It certainly did to me on May the 11th 1985.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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#56
Polar, did you ever say that on one of these posts? I certainly did not. Allow me again:

The Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement. Here's an example of this happening....
Acts 24
24And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. 25And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

No one just "decides one day to come to Jesus" without the Holy Ghost "drawing" them. Now you can say that "draw" means "drag" if you want, but the fact is the Holy Spirit did have some effect on Mr. Felix, so much so that he "trembled", so he did have some "pull" there, but certainly did not "drag" or Felix would have been saved right then and there. So let me explain "sin righteousness and judgement as succinctly as I knwo how. paul told Felix that He was a sinner, but the perfect, Holy Lamb of God, Jesus died for his sins and was his only hope. Otherwise he was on his way to Hell for all eternity. Apparently that scared him and that's why the guy "trembled". Back to your quote above; a man can't just "choose" one day and say "i think I'll become a Christian". No, you have to hear the word of God and be "wooed" by the Holy Ghost. Did that happen to you? It certainly did to me on May the 11th 1985.
You misreptesent our exchange. Yet it serves my point so thank you.

Polar asked me to clarify my point. And I did.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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#57
Dude

You are far more impressed with your own recognizance that I could ever be. Oh you feel attacked because I went to see the body of your work in this forum? You don't like being recognized as a Calvinist and feel that is a personal attack? What you believe colors every aspect of your life, and in the case of Calvinism, you present the idea you have the superior POV and if others, in this case me, don't see how superior you are, then we must be attacking you.

Oh if you only knew how common that reaction is.

Nah. I'm not the hypocrite here, but you did live up to my expectations.

You spelled hypocrite wrong. :giggle:
I am not going down that descending path with you. You didn't even get the point of my asking - why call it Calvinism? Many, many men have written on the Biblical points of God's Sovereignty, Election, Calling...etc. I was simply stating, that Biblically, this Doctrine would be called Grace. (Rom. 9-11). Yet, so many, want to use the label of a man. I have know problem being identified with the Doctrine but not with Calvin. John Calvin was an Amillennial and I certainly do not agree with that view of Eschatology.

And yes, if you go back and look at your response, of my first post to you, after saying the things you said - previously - you were being a Hypocrite.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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490
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#58
Sure. I'll hope to be more clear here .😊💕

I was referring to those who think to rewrite the Bible by giving the ego power and authority to overcome God's plan of Salvation.

Believing we can choose Christ by free will.

And in some cases there are those who also think we can choose to relinquish our salvation.
None of which is in the Bible. Yet it stands to reason when the narcissist insists ego can overcome God, it can also relinquish God.

Egocentrism. Narcissistic.

Fallen man,contrary to what God says of us, can choose to tell God he's wrong. We can save ourselves.

Which was the meaning of my post as pertains to the particulars of God's actual Gospel:
''In a nutshell, Jesus
said no one comes to him unless the father leads them. In our natural mind state as those dead in our sins, we cannot understand the things of the spirit.

Makes sense when we are separated from God by our fallen nature.
Then God sends his spirit into his Elect, so that we may understand and be saved. Eternally. Because the free gift of faith and eternal salvation are irrevocable.

God died to give that gift. We are regenerated,a new creation in Christ for it, and are born again. Only this time we are not separated from God. Because God is in us.
And will never leave us.''

The narcissist cannot understand the things of God.

Because narcissism is the fault in the fallen human nature that sees 'I', self as God. Which is displayed by that personality that insists they can choose to save themselves.
And when they choose, that's when God steps in.

The narcissists good news they're in control.
Right on brother!
 
P

Polar

Guest
#59
Polar, did you ever say that on one of these posts? I certainly did not. Allow me again:

The Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement. Here's an example of this happening....
Acts 24
24And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. 25And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

No one just "decides one day to come to Jesus" without the Holy Ghost "drawing" them. Now you can say that "draw" means "drag" if you want, but the fact is the Holy Spirit did have some effect on Mr. Felix, so much so that he "trembled", so he did have some "pull" there, but certainly did not "drag" or Felix would have been saved right then and there. So let me explain "sin righteousness and judgement as succinctly as I knwo how. paul told Felix that He was a sinner, but the perfect, Holy Lamb of God, Jesus died for his sins and was his only hope. Otherwise he was on his way to Hell for all eternity. Apparently that scared him and that's why the guy "trembled". Back to your quote above; a man can't just "choose" one day and say "i think I'll become a Christian". No, you have to hear the word of God and be "wooed" by the Holy Ghost. Did that happen to you? It certainly did to me on May the 11th 1985.
Sorry? Not sure what is happening here
 
P

Polar

Guest
#60
Sure. I'll hope to be more clear here .😊💕

I was referring to those who think to rewrite the Bible by giving the ego power and authority to overcome God's plan of Salvation.

Believing we can choose Christ by free will.

And in some cases there are those who also think we can choose to relinquish our salvation.
None of which is in the Bible. Yet it stands to reason when the narcissist insists ego can overcome God, it can also relinquish God.

Egocentrism. Narcissistic.

Fallen man,contrary to what God says of us, can choose to tell God he's wrong. We can save ourselves.

Which was the meaning of my post as pertains to the particulars of God's actual Gospel:
''In a nutshell, Jesus
said no one comes to him unless the father leads them. In our natural mind state as those dead in our sins, we cannot understand the things of the spirit.

Makes sense when we are separated from God by our fallen nature.
Then God sends his spirit into his Elect, so that we may understand and be saved. Eternally. Because the free gift of faith and eternal salvation are irrevocable.

God died to give that gift. We are regenerated,a new creation in Christ for it, and are born again. Only this time we are not separated from God. Because God is in us.
And will never leave us.''

The narcissist cannot understand the things of God.

Because narcissism is the fault in the fallen human nature that sees 'I', self as God. Which is displayed by that personality that insists they can choose to save themselves.
And when they choose, that's when God steps in.

The narcissists good news they're in control.
I'm not sure how you understood all of the above from this thread.

Glad I asked, because I am not addressing what you seem to be posting about.

Thanks