Summary of Bible references on the Rapture

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
Matthew 24 -- Five signs of His coming

V.14 -- And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

the gospel of the kingdom is preached to the whole world. This is via the internet, youtube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. The pandemic has played a vital role in pushing Christian fellowship online. 2,000 years ago it was a key step in the ultimate goal that the Father’s name would be hallowed on Earth as it is in heaven. The gospel going worldwide with power preceded WWI, there is no better way to move the age than to preach the gospel of the kingdom.

V. 15 -- When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place.

Temple is rebuilt and Antichrist is in the temple, which will signal the start of the Great tribulation. We are not there yet. First we will need the UN to approve the peace treaty giving Israel authority over Jerusalem. That will be the official start to the last seven years, the tribulation. Then they need to rebuild the temple, that would be a very great trumpet blast to the entire Body of Christ. They cannot dedicate the new temple without sacrificing a Red Heifer. It took many years to get one, but Israel now has two Red Heifers that the priests have certified.

V. 27 -- For as lightning flashes in the East and is visible to the West --

CNN and satellite TV, the signals are transmitted at the speed of light on fiber optic cables. This is like setting up everything for the inauguration. When you see them setting up the stand for the President’s inauguration you know the day is near. CNN and the Gulf war was a dress rehearsal. That was the first example of lightning flashing in the East and shining unto the West.

V. 28 -- Wherever the carcass is there the vultures will be gathered together.

Eagles and vultures are both in the same family: Accipitridae. During the first Gulf war all the vultures, all the birds of prey were arrayed against Iraq in the desert. Iraq was the carcass, the coalition forces were the vultures.

V. 32 -- Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh;

The fig tree is a national symbol of Israel, when the nation was reformed in 1948, when they recaptured Jerusalem in the six day war, and when the peace treaty is signed by the UN giving them authority over Jerusalem that will signal the start of the last seven years of this age. They are working on this peace treaty at this very moment. When the UN signs that treaty it signifies the beginning of the 70th week, the last 7 years of this age, commonly referred to as the Tribulation.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. 25 Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times. 26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined. 27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

The context of the entire prophecy is Jerusalem. One week means 7 years. Daniel says that 69 weeks equals the time from the decree until Jesus would be crucified. It was 483 years from the time that the decree was made to rebuild Jerusalem until the day Jesus was crucified.

The Rapture is not one of these five signs:

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. 37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 40 Then shall two men be in the field; one is taken, and one is left: 41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh.

He compares the rapture to the day that Noah entered the ark. You don’t know the day or the hour of the rapture, and when it happens it is now too late to enter the ark. Stop wasting your time with all this “pre trib”, “post trib” trivial debate. However, Noah prepared for that flood and when the time came He and his family entered the ark and shut the door. They warned the people, they were mocked and ridiculed, but then he was vindicated as a man of faith.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
Romans 9:17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

This word "display" means to carry a message through, announce everywhere. To publish abroad, to declare.

Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

The same word here that is translated to preach

Psalm 60:4 Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth. Selah.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
11 Things that are pointed out in the New Testament

ἐνδείκνυμι -- To point out, to show, demonstrate, prove, manifest, display.

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

People do by nature the things written in the law even though they don't have the law proving that they were created in the image and likeness of this law.

Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

If you are a heavyweight champion you can't show forth that power on a woman or a child or an old man. That would be a crime. But if you get into the ring with another heavyweight champion then you can show forth that power. God raised up Pharaoh for that purpose. Remember when you see the enemy threatening us, God raised him up so that we could see how mighty our God is.

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

In the same way, if I have the most mighty and powerful army in the universe I cannot just blow up another country or world to show you my power. I need vessels fitted to destruction to trespass and commit many crimes worthy of this wrath first. This is what we have seen these last two thousand years.

2Corinthians 8:24 Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.

God has shown forth that we are created in the image and likeness of God, we have seen His mighty power displayed and we will see His wrath. Therefore, on our part, we need to display the proof of our love, that we love God with all our heart and that we love one another even as Christ loved us.

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

God has put on 4 displays in the present age, the fifth display is in the age to come. He is preparing for a great presentation concerning the riches of His grace and kindness.

1Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Today we get a foretaste of this coming presentation, seeing God's longsuffering displayed in the testimony of the saints

2Timothy 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:

The word "did" is this word to display. This evil was not done secretly, but rather was an open display, performative art. Think of the raid on Mar a Lago, it was completely unnecessary. Trump signed a waiver when he got his top secret clearance allowing searches of his home at any time. But this is how the enemy works, they want to make a big display to scare and intimidate others. Terrorists always want their attacks to make the front page of the news.

Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

If you are an employee you should display all good fidelity to your employer. People in the world will "purloin". They steal things from work. It is like the maid who steals, you can't even trust the people you employ and pay. The exception is the Christian, imagine what the world is like once all these Christians are raptured.

Titus 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

What is a brawler, he is someone who wants to show others how tough he is. But we have an expression "gentle giant". People who have no need to show how tough they are can often be the most gentle people. This is what Christians should be, you can show gentleness and meekness to others because you have seen how powerful God is who is in you and with you.

Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

You should display a labor and work of love. Every believer should have a ministry which displays this. For example, this week I have been involved with the Gideon ministry handing out the word of God at a State Fair. We have a display. We openly speak to everyone and offer everyone a testament.

Hebrews 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

This is the final word. Larry Bird said "Push yourself again and again, don't give an inch until the final buzzer sounds".

10 of these things are pointed out by God and His saints. It is the 11th thing pointed out by Alexander the Coppersmith that makes this 11, a number that signified chaos and sin. 5 of things that are shown are from God and 5 are from us. These ten things depict grace worked into our lives.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
Signs prior to the Pre tribulation Rapture given in Luke

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

Many feel this was fulfilled by the two great world wars that led to the formation of Israel and a number of other Middle Eastern countries.

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

We have had a number of "great earthquakes" this last century. In 1920 an earthquake in China killed 273,000 people. In 1976 another earthquake in China killed 242,000. In 1960 we had a monster earthquake in Chile, about 100 times more powerful than the earthquakes in China. In 1964 we had a monster earthquake in Alaska and in 1952 a monster in Kamchatka. In 2004 we had the monster earthquake that resulted in a Tsunami in Indonesia. In 2011 we had the monster earthquake in Japan. In 2018 we had another large earthquake and Tsunami in Indonesia. Then consider the famines, China in 1958 had the great leap forward which resulted in 10-30 million people dying. Soviet Union in 1921 had nine million die, Ukraine in 1932 had seven million die, North Korea, Bengal, and Cambodia also had major famines. In the 21st century we have seen a host of "food crisis" in Africa and North Korea. As far as pestilence goes the Spanish Flu and Covid19 would certainly rank at the top of that list as well as HIV AIDS. For perspective Covid 19 ranks 6th on a list of plagues in the last two thousand years, HIV/AIDS is fourth, and the Spanish flu is 2nd. Three of the six biggest plagues in the last two thousand years have been in the last century.

As for "fearful sights" Fukushima was a fearful sight and Chernobyl was a fearful sight. Not only so but the nuclear bombs in WWII were a fearful sight to the entire world causing them to have the "duck and cover" exercises in schools.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

Before all these suggests we are talking about Nero and the persecution of the early church.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

For example, Saint Stephen, the Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, etc.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. 18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

We have seen this as well over the last two thousand years, whether we are talking about Caesar Nero or even the Holocaust which killed millions of Christians as well as Jews.

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

There are a lot of reasons to put the US and Israel together in these prophecies. The US was clearly formed as a place for God's people (unlike any other nation other than Israel). This is why I think that seeing Washington DC compassed with armies was a major sign of the Lord's soon coming. This prophecy began by giving us the things we would see in the church age, then He jumped to the apostolic age, and finally we see that the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 prefigures the Great Tribulation.

Watching Russia and Ukraine war is a major sign, especially this recent escalation attacking a nuclear facility and NATO and the US sending soldiers to guard their border. Watching China surround Taiwan and threaten the US is also a major sign. Likewise with Iran and N. Korea. This month Russia is holding military drills south of the US border at the same time China is holding drills near Taiwan.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
He talks about all the things required for "proper" interpretation of the Bible. This is really why I post links to his videos because of his historical and geographical context that he adds.

However,

I would point out that I take a very different approach. I am not disputing the value of his approach, on the contrary I agree that it is proper, correct and useful.

However,

I believe in my flesh I am a Philistine, I believe that Babylonian worship and idolatry are not limited to one people, tribe, or region. So I look at every verse in the Bible applying to me, just as a verse about cheese rotting applies to all cheese. We are all a piece of this same lump of sinful cheese. I can see a story about myocarditis, I don't have myocarditis, but I do have a heart, in many ways that story applies to me. The same is true with cancer, toxic water, corrupt officials, and on and on.

We have two eyes, if you check neither eye is giving you the exact same view, but when they both are operating well you get a 3d perspective. What he calls a "correct" interpretation is but a 2d interpretation. The same is true when you apply every verse to your own life and experience. But when you combine both of these viewpoints you get a 3d view.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
Consider where we are

2,000 years ago when Jesus rose from the grave how many Christians were there on earth? The entire world lay in the evil one, even the Jewish religious leaders. Maybe we had 500 baby Christians who had walked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years at most. There was no Bible. Satan did all he could to stamp this out. Jerusalem was raised to the ground. Christians were fed to lions. And yet, despite all this the world is filled with the Bible today. I am part of the Gideon's ministry, in the last 100 years the Gideons have distributed 2 billion Bibles. When I was in college I spent hundreds of dollars for 25 versions of the Bible, Vine's word study, Strong's concordance, and other study books. Today, all of that and more is available online, free. I use Biblegateway and BlueletterBible, these two sites are amazing. The Gideons have an app with 1800 different Bible translations. The Bible has not been translated into every language on earth, but by far all the major ones. At Jesus time it was a very hard thing to be where Jesus was, even if you were He would be surrounded by a crowd. Today you can go online and spend time in the word, it is simple. We have messages on Youtube you can watch.

Satan's kingdom is crumbling. That is the point of the rapture, the manchild is caught up to heaven and there is no longer found any place for Satan. He gets replaced. By ourselves we can't do that, but thousands of saints, hundreds of thousands of saints as a body, as one new man, they can replace him. This is where we are today. 2,000 years ago Satan was scared of the resurrected Jesus, today he is scared of Christ and the Church.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
Lesson's from the Fair

I was with the Gideons this week passing out Bible's at the State fair. I went in knowing that if you offer a bible to kids it is very hard for the parents to say no. While passing them out I came to a new problem, what happens if they have three kids and the youngest is a preschooler who doesn't read but wants one too? So I would say "here, you can ask your Mom to read this to you at night for a bedtime story".

However, I was paired with a brother that is a professional salesman and he was excellent with those who are of working age, so I learned a lot from him. Then one night I was paired with a different brother who was excellent with the elderly. Over the course of the week we passed out close to 1400 scriptures, but if I had all that training from the get go I would have easily passed out 100 more and I was only there a third of the time. We brought 1600 Bibles to the fair so I suspect with a little training we would have passed them all out.

But that is not the only thing I learned. I met atheists and I met those who said "they worshipped another god". Clearly they were just into fornication but probably satanism as well. It is good to see that this creeping idolatry and satanism is coming into your city.

But not just that, we met many Christians who were clearly encouraged to see us distributing bibles.

During this entire time I thought we were missing one thing. We were in this very large barn type building, wouldn't it have been great if at one end of the building or the other was a Christian worship team playing worship songs? I talked to the director of the vendors and he said that they had had music one year but the vendors complained because it was too loud. But they had put the music in the center of the exhibits. I would put it all the way at one end, removed from the exhibits by about thirty feet. I would ask the saints to not play too loud. Everyone in the building would hear them and be able to go visit, but it wouldn't make it hard for the vendors to talk to people. The fair is 7 days, ten hours per day for vendors. If you had three three hour sessions a day, you would need 21 churches to provide a worship team for one session. Then not only would that help sanctify the hall, but you would also have 21 churches spreading the word concerning the fair.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
Consider this picture in light of the story of Noah

7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth. 8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; 9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.

The Spirit of Antichrist is released at the same time that the Spirit goes and raptures the saints.

10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; 11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

Seven days later the Spirit goes out a second time and this time comes back with an olive leaf. A leaf signifies the works, not the fruit yet, but the works. We know that after the rapture there will be two olive trees where those who are left behind can purchase oil. So after seven days we can see that these two witnesses have begun their work.

12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

Jesus began His ministry when John the Baptist baptized Him and the Spirit as a dove descended upon Him. In the same manner the Spirit will descend upon these two witnesses. It looks like their ministry will begin two weeks after the rapture.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113

He makes the point that not many are saved.

Many of us have a real problem with this because we know that God is merciful, so why would most people go to hell?

However, I heard a brother share that if you steal something and get caught you must repay 7 fold. So for every person that Satan deceived and stole, he will have to repay seven fold with souls that actually chose to worship Satan. So then, if only one ninth of the people on this earth are Christians, then 8/9ths could belong to Satan and yet if he deceived one eighth of them he will have to repay all of them.

This corresponds with what we read in the Bible. We have a thousand years where Satan is locked up and then he must be released for a short while to create a rebellion. Who is joining that rebellion? No doubt there are many people who were given a second chance by God and by His mercy that will return to Satan.

In short, I believe that this prophecy that not many are saved can be true, while at the same time very many people can be given a second chance showing how God is merciful and that also can be true.

People do not get thrown into the lake of fire (hell) until the end of the thousand year millenial reign.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
The Last state of that man is worse than the first

Luke 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. 25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. 26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Matthew 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

What have we seen with the US public school system? In the 1800s we were one of the only countries in the world with a public school system for everyone. Other countries had school for elites, but not for the masses. In the early 1900s the US emerged from being a colonial country split by Civil war to become a country with a significant navy and diplomatic presence under Teddy Roosevelt. After WWI we were recognized as a global power and after WWII as the dominant superpower. Under Eisenhower we were respected and admired around the world. Our supermarkets were the envy of the world. Our highway system was a tremendous strategic advantage that no other continent had. The 1950s were our heyday.

But then in the 1960s prayer was taken out of school. This opened the door. Drugs, sex and rock and roll. By the 1970s Roe v. Wade legalized abortion as though that would solve the problem of teen pregnancy and single mothers. So what have we seen happen to our schools? We have teen pregnancy, drugs, single mothers, domestic abuse, poverty, gang violence, and a very high truancy and dropout rate. But that is not all. We now have school shootings, something we couldn't even imagine in the 1950s. Compare the gang violence we have today with "West Side Story", the contrast is almost comical. Yet it gets worse, we have pornography in the elementary school library, we have LGBTQ story hour, we have elementary school teachers talking about their sex life with elementary school kids, and we discover that the perversion runs deep on the TV shows and movies our kids watch. Pornography is a demon. Houston just broke a story today where a fourteen year old girl in foster care told someone from Child protective services that she was hungry and the woman in no uncertain terms told her to work as a prostitute to feed herself.

There is only one solution. All believers should leave the public school system. I know that we want to work with the system, but you have to play hard ball. Let the system totally devour itself and let all people see how terrible it becomes without the saints. You cannot compromise. Paul said "what fellowship does darkness have with light". If they refuse to let the Bible in the school and they get rid of prayer then you should say it is not a fit place for my kid.

They will tell you many lies, like "kids can bring Bibles to school" or "they can form Bible studies at school". You can't have a club without a teacher supervising. How is the kid to know which teacher would supervise a Bible study club? So if teachers are not allowed to bring Bibles and share their faith openly it will extinguish any hope of a sanctified school. Yes, there may be an extraordinary student here and there throughout the country, but for the most part they will be few and far between.

The solution is simple:

1. The tax dollars follow the kid.

2. Your local church uses their classrooms to facilitate homeschooling. You have church administration which can do some of the work, parents, and retired teachers can do most of the work. Depending on how many kids and the age of the kids you may or may not need to hire a full time teacher.

3. There are a lot of Elearning tools that can be used to teach most classes up to the high school level. Other than math, art and music, most classes can be taught by reading books and using Elearning tools. If you got $10,000 per kid and had 30 kids you would have a budget that could support 3 full time teachers, a little support from the church staff, and help from the parents.

4. The libraries are filled with books that come with tapes, so the kids can read along as someone reads the book to them with headphones.

You can easily outperform the public schools and then you will see the parents in the world wanting to send their kids to your school. The solution is not to "reform" the public school, that will never work. Instead set up your own school, use your own books, encourage Christians all over the country to write children's stories based on the Bible to help kids learn to read. Study Mr. Roger's neighborhood for an excellent preschool curriculum.

Soon the contrast will be black and white. Go to the pubic school and your kid will be doing drugs, getting gender reassignment, or coming home pregnant. There will be no art, no music, no drama, and the classes they do have will be a total disaster. Go to the church school and you will see kids in their right mind, with a solid foundation in the Bible and truth, they will be reading at a college level, they will play an instrument, they will be involved in two church plays a year, they will sing in the choir, and their grades will qualify them for entrance into the best colleges.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113
Genesis 16 The God who sees

1 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian slave named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, “The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.” Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived. When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my slave in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the Lord judge between you and me.” 6 “Your slave is in your hands,” Abram said. “Do with her whatever you think best.” Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her. 7 The angel of the Lord found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”

“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered. 9 Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”

11 The angel of the Lord also said to her: “You are now pregnant and you will give birth to a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the Lord has heard of your misery. 12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”

13 She gave this name to the Lord who spoke to her: “You are the God who sees me,” for she said, “I have now seen the One who sees me.” 14 That is why the well was called Beer Lahai Roi; it is still there, between Kadesh and Bered.

15 So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne. 16 Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael.

This is a great story, it tells us a lot about Hagar and a little about Ishmael. Hagar is visited by an Angel, she gets a prophecy concerning her son who has yet to be born, and she learns that God sees her. As a rule we consider Sarah to be wonderful woman of faith, however here she is still called Sarai, not yet transformed to Sarah. Peter holds Sarah up as an example for all wives, but despite that the Bible never holds Sarai up as an example of a great boss. She was abusive to Hagar who was pregnant, and the Bible does not deny this. The angel tells Hagar that God has heard her misery. I do think that her saying that God is the God who sees refers to God seeing her misery.

However, I think this is important for us today, yes, God sees, He saw her misery, but He also saw where all this started. “When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress”. This isn’t just Sarai being petty, she complains to Abraham who also was aware of Hagar’s behavior and doesn’t try to defend her. If you despise your boss what do you think is going to happen? Yes, God is the God who sees. He saw that you were treated badly by Sarai and he saw that you provoked this by despising her.

From this we can learn about Ishmael.

12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.”

If Ishmael is a “donkey of a man” then his mother must be a donkey. “His hand is against everyone and everyone’s hand against him”. “He will live in hostility toward all his brothers”. I find it very striking that the maid servants of Leah and Rachel both had children to Jacob and we don’t see this kind of drama. So what really hit me was this verse “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” This word “submit” is not used very often in Genesis, in fact this is the first time. The next time is with Pharaoh telling Joseph that all of Egypt will submit to him. I have no doubt that Hagar was treated badly, I suspect you get on the wrong side of Sarai she could make your life hell. But I very much doubt that Sarai treated Hagar (an Egyptian) worse than Joseph was treated by his brothers (who sold him into slavery probably the same case with Hagar) and by Joseph’s master in Egypt who had him imprisoned on false charges.

God is the one who sees, He is also the one who deals with us. Sarai was still being dealt with and was in the process of being transformed into Sarah. Joseph goes through the same trials, though worse, but with a very different attitude and a different result.

his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him

I feel this is a great principle. If the problem is your boss then you will not have trouble with other bosses and other jobs. But if the problem is with every boss and every job, then the problem is with you, not them. I watched the Dog Whisperer and he would often talk about the power of the pack. The pack will instantly realize if they have a problem dog or not. He would bring a new dog to the pack to quickly learn what they thought. If every dog in the pack is against this new dog then he knows this dog is a problem.

We are seeing the same thing play out in front of our eyes right now. This cancel culture is described as "eating their own" though I think the more appropriate response is that "their hand is against everyone and everyone's hand against them". They are so focused on the offenses, any offense, even something from 20 years ago, even some girl goes to a high school dance twenty years ago and that is enough to set them off. They are not acting like Joseph, they are acting like Hagar.

Think about BLM, they were protesting at the Rittenhouse trial, they wanted him convicted of murder and yet the evidence was overwhelming that it was self defense. So then they said "if it was a black boy he would have been killed". What are they saying? Are they protesting the injustice of a black youth being treated unfairly in the court so therefore this white boy should be killed? Rittenhouse did not shoot any blacks, only three white men, all of whom were felons and all of whom were trying to kill him. It is as though BLM is against everyone.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
31,523
5,588
113