Scripture is Our Source of Truth???????????

I didn't say anything about creeds. I responded only to your claim that
any Christian NOT leading people to Christ are not of God, and are hypocrites.

People have different roles in the Body of Christ. You overlook that.
Probably worse, since you condemn those not doing a specific thing.

What was applicable to unbelieving Jews is not necessarily applicable to believing Christians. So Christians do learn Bible truth line upon line, and precept upon precept. Nothing is learned overnight.

It's because there are certain root issues that the teachings appeal too. And there are certain personality types that are drawn to them. A felt need is being met, (so they think). But it is an illusion. They promise them liberty but they bring them into bondage.

They take them backwards in illumination instead of forwards.

They use the Talmud and Jewish Rabbinical teachings and Jewish traditions that were developed from corrupt teachers as if they were divinely inspired and suggest that revelations about Jesus can be discovered from them.

I don't understand the appeal. It is so repulsive to my spirit and to the Holy Spirit. What is the draw? Why would anyone think that something that the Pharisees taught to circumvent scriptures was something worth talking about as if one could get a revelation of Jesus in it? This is what is going on and I don't understand why they fall for it. Are they that ignorant? Maybe they are. But I think there is an underlying sickness in the soul that is the root cause.

What is the need or "wrong motive" that is being met by those that fall for it?

At any rate one thing is certain. The same demons behind the errors being taught in the NT that Paul warned about are still active and behind every error being taught today.

When you say "line upon line" what do you mean by that? Do you mean reading lines of text and learning truths and building on that as you learn more truths until you have the whole idea that scriptures reveal on a theme?

But what did Isaiah mean when he said that? I am not sure if that was what he was talking about in that text.

you said they were praying for you. you came to Christ.

you took only a [portion] of what i said and not all of it.

did those who pray for you brow beat you about Creeds and then prayed for you?

i was addressing someone who was brow-beating so i asked how many souls have they led to Christ.

but thank you for clarifying what you were thinking about

Exactly, creeds were written to combat historical heresies. To enforce the church doctrine.

We should look at the entire passage in Isaiah 28:9-14:

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the Word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the Word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

So what do we learn from this passage?

1. God wants to teach men divine truths gradually.
2. Those who will learn must not be either real or metaphorical infants.
3. Only those who are indwelt by the Spirit can be taught by God.
4. God will teach us line upon line and precept upon precept.
5. However there is a group of people who (a) refuse to listen to God (v 12), (b) who are scornful about Gospel truth and Bible truth (v 14), and therefore (c) line upon line and precept upon precept has the opposite effect on them -- they fall backward, they are broken, they are snared, and they are taken (v 13).

So for the enemies of Christ He became a stumbling stone and a rock of offence, whereas for those who believed Him He became the Rock of Ages.

Note: There is also here a reference to the gift of tongues for unbelieving Jews, but that is a different subject.

Not correct, early Christian creeds existed before any New Testament was formulated.

The letters of the apostles and other authors were circulating through the churches, in the first and second century.
No one really knew which letters were inspired and which were not. It took some time to isolate the letters that would comprise the New Testament. Creeds circulated and 1 Corinthians 15 is a good example of a creed. Actually that creed became scripture.

Paul has quoted from other sources at times and those quotations from others, became scripture.

Titus 1:12
One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”

That's not Paul speaking, that statement belongs to a Cretan prophet.

which Creed do those who follow Creeds believe in?

First Council of Nicaea (325)
First Council of Constantinople (381)

Agree with you on that. Though the Roman church was slowly trying to impose it's authority on everyone else. The Orthodox church did not depart until around 1000 AD. That's when the pope was in full flight. They refused to submit to the pope.

Your not wrong on that point. That is what the apostles instructed us to do.

Agreed!


7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

which is why i follow God's Command:
19 Go, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

20 teaching them to observe all things whatever I commanded you.

Everyone is at different stages of maturity you can't lump everyone into the same group but they can plant seeds they can water but that isn't anything, ultimately only God can give the increase

1 Corinthians 3
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

They are worth so much that he shed his blood and died for them, And God works in them however he wants for his own will and of his good pleasure, that's my point I wouldn't want to make that judgment because you don't know the heart

So for furthering his kingdom, Because they have become children of God and God lives in them they can express the love of God to a lost world, As God is Love we should try to reflect that love, as opposed to trying to decide who is saved or not based on works you witness

Not often I see a statement of that caliber expressed.
You obviously are not a new Christian. It takes time for the Holy Spirit to impress love into our hearts.

1 Timothy 1:5
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith.

You have been well taught or you have read the scripture a lot.

The study is turning quite large, they had more in common than I had imagined, and they mirrored things in so many aspects, this is going to take a while to exhaust, might have to get back to you in 3 years

i never said they were not Saved.

any way i answer i might offend someone and that would be worse.

i will say i am thankful for this forum that allows people to gather and keep their Faith and Knowledge in God sharpened.

i tend to think how it's easy for me to participate and also be around sinners i am able to witness to. some people are not able. but thankfully they can pray for people to find God.

Thanks Brother means a lot

What's new..... im a slow learner, And very Good point that's why I need more patience

About 5 years ago I Prayed and asked in a world full of lies can you show me the truth, I got led to Jesus and foot of the cross, When I put my soul there the Bible really came to life, The stage I am at the more I learn the more I realize I know barely anything, and everywhere I look there is so much more to learn, comments like yours earlier have helped, to point me in certain directions and open certain doors to look through, I appreciate that

in my life i am able to be online and get involved in discussions and discuss the Word of God. then i am able to log off and go to places where it's clear many need God. and there i am able to walk around and say God loves you or you need God. but there are many here who are just unable to do that due to several reasons. i tend to think people are like me and have same abilities and capabilities. but they have a different role they hold for God. a role that is just as important. sometimes i forget how blessed we all are in our own unique ways.