Does The Book of Revelation Frighten You/

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I

Inquisitor

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#141
oyster67 said:
The Bible uses symbols. Symbols are a part of normal human communication. You seem to stumble upon the simplest and most basic of Biblical matters.



There were many trees in the Garden. In the center was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.



The unbelieving part was cut off.



Oh, that this were true.
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There were two trees in the center of the garden of Eden.

Genesis 2:9
Out of the ground the Lord God caused every tree to grow that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The literal interpretation of the text (Genesis 3:14) identifies the devil as a snake.

Here, read the verse below.

Genesis 3:14
Then the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you more than all the livestock, and more than any animal of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life."

According to the literal interpretation of Genesis 3:14, whenever we have seen a snake, we have actually seen Satan.

Satan slithers around on the face of the earth and eats dirt.

Is this the literal interpretation or an allegory?
 
oyster67

oyster67

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#142
Inquisitor said:
There were two trees in the center of the garden of Eden.

Genesis 2:9
Out of the ground the Lord God caused every tree to grow that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The literal interpretation of the text (Genesis 3:14) identifies the devil as a snake.

Here, read the verse below.

Genesis 3:14
Then the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you more than all the livestock, and more than any animal of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life."

According to the literal interpretation of Genesis 3:14, whenever we have seen a snake, we have actually seen Satan.

Satan slithers around on the face of the earth and eats dirt.

Is this the literal interpretation or an allegory?
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Eve was literally tempted by Satan. The form he took is completely irrelevant.
 
I

Inquisitor

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#143
oyster67 said:
Eve was literally tempted by Satan. The form he took is completely irrelevant.
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God told you he was a snake but apparently that doesn't matter.

Genesis 3
Now the serpent was more cunning than any animal of the field...

Now for some reason you are ignoring what God said in your literal interpretation.

It seemed important enough for God to describe this serpent in Genesis 3.

I wonder what other verses and chapters you dismiss through the scripture as irrelevant?

I don't dismiss the serpent as that is a symbol of the devil, the deceiver.

I do think you are not recognizing the symbolic nature of the serpent.
 
P

peldom10

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Radius said:
No true Christian would call our Heavenly Father Allah. Whoever those "Christians" are I would correct.
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Inherent in your point is the must that we realize who we are referring and not call them a Christian if they are not. If one calls God allah...they are not a Christian. (period).
 
oyster67

oyster67

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Inquisitor said:
I do think you are not recognizing the symbolic nature of the serpent.
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The literal serpent was a literal manifestation of the literal Satan. I have said enough to you about this. Both the physical realm and the Spiritual realm are real and literal things. The Bible is literally God's Word to man handed down in written form. The symbols of the Bible refer to spiritual things, but they often are physical and literal manifestations nonetheless. The Bible is not a book of myths.
 
SomeDisciple

SomeDisciple

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There are things in Revelation that 'sound-scary', in a manner of speaking; but it's not meant to frighten believers. There is the reality of tribulation- which does tend to scare people; but we overcome tribulation by faith in Jesus. The stuff about judgements, if it seems scary, should just lead a believer to repentance rather than leave some kind of lasting sense of terror.
 
1

1ambassador

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The book of Revelation might well frighten a non-believer, but a true Christian should see is as a 'revelation' for good. It shows me the big picture and the future for this world; and reveals the end-time, where our Creator-God reveals what is yet to come. It makes clear many things mentioned in the Gospels and Epistles, by revelation of how things will develop and end-times; from the 'rapture' (calling up in joy) of true saints (as John 3:16) to our Redeemer in Christ, and what will happen thereafter on earth; and being eventually the reign of Christ as King, as was intended from the beginning --and men (even religious ones), had Him killed. Religion is often seen today as just a meta-physical meditation of unseen conditons by some people, who know not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Well, let us be glad our God have given us His Word to know what we need to know to learn to be in accord with our Creator-God.
 
P

peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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1ambassador said:
The book of Revelation might well frighten a non-believer, but a true Christian should see is as a 'revelation' for good. It shows me the big picture and the future for this world; and reveals the end-time, where our Creator-God reveals what is yet to come. It makes clear many things mentioned in the Gospels and Epistles, by revelation of how things will develop and end-times; from the 'rapture' (calling up in joy) of true saints (as John 3:16) to our Redeemer in Christ, and what will happen thereafter on earth; and being eventually the reign of Christ as King, as was intended from the beginning --and men (even religious ones), had Him killed. Religion is often seen today as just a meta-physical meditation of unseen conditons by some people, who know not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Well, let us be glad our God have given us His Word to know what we need to know to learn to be in accord with our Creator-God.
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...and Praise God!!!
 
R

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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peldom10 said:
What are you using to convert the 144000 into 5 mil.?
Also what gives you authority to designate them as Jews vs. Hebrews?
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The Old Testament, just like Gen. 37:9 decodes the Rev. 12 woman (Israel). God uses numbers throughout the Old Testament, but when God TIMES a number by another number that is Him SHOUTING, for us to understand. God does not pre chose men, we come to God by faith alone, so when God says 7000, or 144,000 he is pointing hat the numbers mean without giving the world/Satan His unique plans per se. The same reason Jesus told the disciples he spoke to them in parables, because he wanted them to understand, but not the world. So, I understand God doesn't pre choose His conversions, so I understand squared off numbers like 7000 and 144,000 make no sense in the natural realm, but as a CODE they make perfect sense. 12 means fulness and 10 means completeness, so 12 x 10 is All Israel who repent. And 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 is God SHOUTING that fact. Just as 7 (Divine Completion) x 10 x 10 x 10 = 7000 or All Israel. Plus, how can 1/3 be true if both 7000 and 144,000 are not CODES? We know 15 million Jews are living today, thus 1/3 of 15 million = 5 million or so Jews.

The 7000 was never 7000 and the 144,000 were never 144.000 both are codes, just like the Woman was always Israel in Rev. 12. The 7 Heads and 10 Horns simply means God's Divine Judgment as brought forth and allowed by God to chastise Israel until they finally repent, the 10 kings means ALL Europe, not 10. Where you see 666, that doesn't mean his name, it means he's a MAN as in 6 is mans number, thus 666 is again God using a code to tell us the last beast is a Man, not a Kingdom as all the others were, Dan. 7:11 testifies unto this, the Beasts BODY is destroyed and he is cast into hellfire. The other 6 Mountains (Rev. 7) arose then other kings FELL so 5 had fallen and one is.....and one is yet to come, the last Beast is the only beast to both Arise as a Beast and FALL as a Beast. Thus 666 simply tells us he is a man, not a succession of kings like all the rest were.
 
cv5

cv5

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Katia said:
A friend recently told me that the book of Revelation frightened her. I am so in love with God (Allah to some Christians) that I feel I have righteous fear of God. The punishment I receive I will have earned. I spent many years in a denomination where shouty pastors did their best to put terror of God in our hearts. I don't think that was his intention.
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Of course not. Christians are raptured before the 70th week of Daniel tribulation ever begins.

Jesus final words to His disciples in the Upper Room Discourse speaks nothing whatsoever to wrath and judgement. Understandably so as the Church the Bride is not appointed to wrath.

On the contrary....He says:

Jhn 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
 
I

Inquisitor

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Rondonmon said:
just like the Woman was always Israel in Rev. 12
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We have a few possible candidates for the woman in Revelation 12.

Here is what the text states about the woman.

Revelation 12:1-2
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; and she was pregnant and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.

Revelation 12:5-6
And she gave birth to a Son, a male, who is going to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her Child was caught up to God and to His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for 1,260 days.

Revelation 12:13-17
And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Is the woman Israel?

Which Israel are you referring to?

Old Covenant Israel, New Covenant Israel, perhaps the modern Democratic Israel?

Unfortunately, Mary would be the best fit as per the description of the woman. Though the church as the bride, a symbolic woman, would also be a very good fit.

It is a tough call and not one I would make.
 
R

Rondonmon

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#153
Inquisitor said:
Is the woman Israel?

Which Israel are you referring to?

Old Covenant Israel, New Covenant Israel, perhaps the modern Democratic Israel?
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Lets start here, there is no such thing as a New Covenant Israel, that is a misreading/understanding of the bible. Israel is Israel, Gal. 3 is saying just the opposite of what people who think in this manner, ascribe it to mean. Its saying to the Galatians, HEY, STOP trying to be Jews in order to make it to heaven via keeping the Sabbath etc. etc. Then he cites how the Law was never the covenant, it was added 430 years AFTER the Promise !! Then Paul tells them, there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile) slave nor freeman, male nor female (THINK).......Are there still males and females? This ought to ring an alarm bell. Paul's whole point is God doesn't see us in CLASSES, He sees us not as Male and Females, not as Jews and Greeks so STOP trying to keep the law like he Jews in order o make it to Heaven, he's not saying there are now no Jews and we are ALL ONE any more than he's saying we are all transexuals (one gender) now.

NOW knowing this REREAD the whole chapter, its obvious what he's saying, O Foolish Galatians who has deceived you that arising in THE FAITH, you are now trying to please God via THE FLESH (keeping the Laws like the Jews). Then he goes on and on how THE PROMISE is the real Covenant, not THE LAW, and says once the Law was just a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ Jesus THE PROMISE, so the whole chapter is Paul rebuking te Galatians for thinking they had to be "Jew like" in order to make it to heaven, Paul this says NO............be yourselves, God accepts both Jews AND Greeks, Males AND Females, Slaves AND Freemen, all via FAITH ALONE. He's is NEVER, NEVER, EVER saying we are all ONE Nation now. The Church still has a specific calling, and it has bot Jews and Gentiles, but mostly Gentiles, the Jews will mostly repent during the 70th week AFTER the Rapture, thus when Jesus sets up his 1000 year reign in Jerusalem there will be about 5 million Jewish people, Jesus thus will have a Jewish peoples dwelling in Israel to rule with him in the "Kingdom Age".

Satan is very sneaky, and a lying deceiver.

Inquisitor said:
We have a few possible candidates for the woman in Revelation 12.

Here is what the text states about the woman.

Revelation 12:1-2
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; and she was pregnant and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.
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This is VERY EASY to understand, the code is the Old Testament.

Gen. 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

The Sun was Jacob, the Moon was Rachel, the 11 Stars his brother and he was the 12th Star so Jacob, Rachel and their kids make up Israel.

All the whole the "SIGN is a Horoscope Sign" was always a joke of a theory.
 
I

Inquisitor

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Rondonmon said:
Lets start here, there is no such thing as a New Covenant Israel, that is a misreading/understanding of the bible. Israel is Israel, Gal. 3 is saying just the opposite of what people who think in this manner, ascribe it to mean. Its saying to the Galatians, HEY, STOP trying to be Jews in order to make it to heaven via keeping the Sabbath etc. etc. Then he cites how the Law was never the covenant, it was added 430 years AFTER the Promise !! Then Paul tells them, there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile) slave nor freeman, male nor female (THINK).......Are there still males and females? This ought to ring an alarm bell. Paul's whole point is God doesn't see us in CLASSES, He sees us not as Male and Females, not as Jews and Greeks so STOP trying to keep the law like he Jews in order o make it to Heaven, he's not saying there are now no Jews and we are ALL ONE any more than he's saying we are all transexuals (one gender) now.

NOW knowing this REREAD the whole chapter, its obvious what he's saying, O Foolish Galatians who has deceived you that arising in THE FAITH, you are now trying to please God via THE FLESH (keeping the Laws like the Jews). Then he goes on and on how THE PROMISE is the real Covenant, not THE LAW, and says once the Law was just a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ Jesus THE PROMISE, so the whole chapter is Paul rebuking te Galatians for thinking they had to be "Jew like" in order to make it to heaven, Paul this says NO............be yourselves, God accepts both Jews AND Greeks, Males AND Females, Slaves AND Freemen, all via FAITH ALONE. He's is NEVER, NEVER, EVER saying we are all ONE Nation now. The Church still has a specific calling, and it has bot Jews and Gentiles, but mostly Gentiles, the Jews will mostly repent during the 70th week AFTER the Rapture, thus when Jesus sets up his 1000 year reign in Jerusalem there will be about 5 million Jewish people, Jesus thus will have a Jewish peoples dwelling in Israel to rule with him in the "Kingdom Age".

Satan is very sneaky, and a lying deceiver.


This is VERY EASY to understand, the code is the Old Testament.

Gen. 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

The Sun was Jacob, the Moon was Rachel, the 11 Stars his brother and he was the 12th Star so Jacob, Rachel and their kids make up Israel.

All the whole the "SIGN is a Horoscope Sign" was always a joke of a theory.
Click to expand...
The sun, the moon, and the 12 stars were the types, symbols, that would later be fulfilled. The Old Testament has the types that the New Testament fulfills.

If there are no Jew or Gentile, why does Paul in Romans chapter eleven maintain that distinction?

Romans 11:25
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
 
B

birdie

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Katia said:
A friend recently told me that the book of Revelation frightened her. I am so in love with God (Allah to some Christians) that I feel I have righteous fear of God. The punishment I receive I will have earned. I spent many years in a denomination where shouty pastors did their best to put terror of God in our hearts. I don't think that was his intention.
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There is a lot of comfort in Revelation for those who are in Christ. For example, we learn in Revelation chapter 11 that the true believers are clothed with the sun (meaning clothed with Christ's righteousness). We learn in Revelation chapter 7 that God seals his own. We learn in Revelation chapter 3 that the church exhibiting brotherly love is the one that God endorses wholeheartedly and that it has precious promises. We learn from Revelation chapter 21 that 'the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.' We learn from Rev 20 that the second death has no power over God's own.
 
K

Katia

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cv5 said:
Of course not. Christians are raptured before the 70th week of Daniel tribulation ever begins.

Jesus final words to His disciples in the Upper Room Discourse speaks nothing whatsoever to wrath and judgement. Understandably so as the Church the Bride is not appointed to wrath.

On the contrary....He says:

Jhn 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Click to expand...
I view the Rapture with a jaundiced eye.
 
R

Rondonmon

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#159
Inquisitor said:
The sun, the moon, and the 12 stars were the types, symbols, that would later be fulfilled. The Old Testament has the types that the New Testament fulfills.
Click to expand...
The Woman is Israel as Gen. 37:9 proves.

Inquisitor said:
If there are no Jew or Gentile, why does Paul in Romans chapter eleven maintain that distinction?

Romans 11:25
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
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I said just the opposite, there are Jews and Gentiles and tat Gal. 3 does not say that.

Maybe you stated your position badly above and see ALL AS ONE, who knows, if so, the partial hardening of Israel simply means Israel as a Nation (IN PART) has been blinded, but Jews as individual of course were not blinded, each man must work out their own salvation. Thus Israel only repents as a Nation once God is through with the Gentile Church Age, and after the Pre Trib Rapture.
 
R

Rondonmon

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Katia said:
I just don't see good theology for the Rapture.
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Why would you see it when the bible is about Israel who only or MOSTLY repent (see Zechariah 13:8-9 and Zech. 14:1) during the 70th week ? The Old Testament was God revealing unto Israel their plight, the New Testament was Jesus sent unto Israel only (Lost Sheep only). Jesus, after he fulfilled his calling, then sent Paul unto the Gentiles so the Gentiles could take the Gospel unto the whole world. Meanwhile God had forsaken Israel as a nation for 2000 some odd years. So, the bible being about Israel, this Paul says I tell you a Mystery (Musterion or Secret by God's silence) we shall not all sleep (die and rest in the grave) but some will be CHANGED (Die and go to be with the Lord in the Spirit just like those raised from the grave do) in the twinkling of an eye.

If you want to understand the TIMING of the Rapture stop trying to find the theology and simply put THE TIMING together, its not hard at all, there can only be a Pre Trib Rapture because of all the TIOMING TELLS throughout the New Testament/Book of Revelation. Its not even that hard.

For instance, we see the Church in Rev. 4 and 5 IN HEAVEN, before Jesus ever opens the 7 Seals, we see the Church Marrying Jesus in Heaven in Rev. 19:7-8, and then returning with Jesus as his Armies whilst the Beast and all his minions are STILL ON EARTH when we return !! In Rev. 7:9-17 those who came out of Great Tribulation (Church Age Tribulation) can not be from the 70th week, only from the Church Age, Jesus' own words tells us this in the 5th Seal, he tells those Martyrs under the Altar that they MUST WAIT on vengeance until all of their brothers have been killed in LIKE MANNER as they have, in other words until the Beasts 42 month reign of terror is finished, then in Rev. 20:4 we SEE with our own eyes that those killed who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast are all raised and judged only AFTER Jesus' Second Coming, thus these seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT BE from the 70th week, its not possible unless Jesus told an untruth. These TIMING TELLS go on and on and on.
 
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