Did Paul have a son while in prison?

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Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#21
Sep 23, 2014
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#21
Runningman said:
Paul referred to Onesimus as his begotten son. In other cases where Paul refers to someone as his son or child he didn’t say they’re begotten. The word begotten refers to offspring such as is the case with Jesus being God’s begotten Son.
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Paul offers a fatherly warning to the Corinthians and mentions Timothy:
1Cor4
14I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children. 15Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16Therefore I urge you to imitate me. 17That is why I have sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus,a which is exactly what I teach everywhere in every church.

v. 15 in the KJV says
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

whereas 'born' is relative to a womb, i.e. born of woman, begotten is relative to a father, or the bearer of the seed, and in this case the seed is the gospel.
 
R

Runningman

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#23
Mar 4, 2020
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#23
Mem said:
Paul offers a fatherly warning to the Corinthians and mentions Timothy:
1Cor4
14I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you as my beloved children. 15Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. 16Therefore I urge you to imitate me. 17That is why I have sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus,a which is exactly what I teach everywhere in every church.

v. 15 in the KJV says
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

whereas 'born' is relative to a womb, i.e. born of woman, begotten is relative to a father, or the bearer of the seed, and in this case the seed is the gospel.
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Thanks that actually helps clear it up a bit for me. Someone can be begotten through the gospel of Christ. Paul was talking about being a spiritual father of sorts.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#25
Jul 12, 2021
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#25
Runningman said:
Thanks that actually helps clear it up a bit for me. Someone can be begotten through the gospel of Christ. Paul was talking about being a spiritual father of sorts.
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Paul was the father of their faith.

We are used to a type of conversion that says "Give me your hand, give God your heart, and choose the church of your choice". Yet Paul and the other apostles understood to "make disciples" in the same way Jesus made disciples: by giving God their lives as an investment into the lives of the new children. This is how they became spiritual fathers (not DNA fathers and certainly not fathers in the sense of an office) to the ones God gave them.

There is a 1 to 1 correlation between Jesus giving an account to the Father regarding His responsibility to the disciples:

"Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

And the responsibilities of the mature toward the young:

"Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you."

"The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away. Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders."

Interestingly, at the end of 1Peter 5, Peter writes this about Mark: "She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son."

This Mark is not Peter's natural child. He was Peter's spiritual son.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#27
Sep 2, 2020
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#27
Runningman said:
Okay thats fine.

I have a reply that, but since you’re going to make a new thread I’ll just wait until I see it and I’ll respond there.
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Brother he was a slave who ran away and Paul converted him and advised him to return and wrote to Philemon to receive him no longer as a slave but now as a brother who’s been converted to Christianity

“For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord?

If thou count me therefore a partner, receive him as myself. If he hath wronged thee, or oweth thee ought, put that on mine account; I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self besides.”
‭‭Philemon‬ ‭1:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s concern over this issue was the reason Paul wrote this letter his concern for him and so Paul addresses Philemon on his behalf, Philemon isn’t an epistle for teaching it’s a personal letter to Philemon regarding onesimus and Philemon because he had ran away from Philemon and was his servant

Paul is interceding on onesimus behalf with Philemon
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#28
Jun 20, 2022
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#28
Runningman said:
Begotten refers to offspring such as in the case of Jesus being God’s only begotten Son. Think back to God’s Holy Spirit causing Mary to become pregnant and giving birth to Jesus. Jesus identified Himself as such prior to His resurrection in John 3:16.
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you seriously believe that the WORD is little junior?

you believe the Holy Spirit had SEX with Mary?
[[if the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary, how is the Father Jesus' Dad if the Holy Spirit and the Father are different Beings?]]


the Greek word for Begotten is monogenes.

Monogenes means one of a kind, not a child from having SEX!

this thread is depressing if people are thinking God and Paul had sex.

wouldn't God be a HYPOCRITE for sending the Angels to Hell locked up in total Darkness who had sex with human women in Genesis 6 if He turned around and had sex with Mary?
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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#29
Jul 12, 2021
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#29
The_Watchers_2017 said:
you seriously believe that the WORD is little junior?

you believe the Holy Spirit had SEX with Mary?
[[if the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary, how is the Father Jesus' Dad if the Holy Spirit and the Father are different Beings?]]


the Greek word for Begotten is monogenes.

Monogenes means one of a kind, not a child from having SEX!

this thread is depressing if people are thinking God and Paul had sex.

wouldn't God be a HYPOCRITE for sending the Angels to Hell locked up in total Darkness who had sex with human women in Genesis 6 if He turned around and had sex with Mary?
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Dude.

That's not what he's implying.
 
R

Runningman

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#30
Mar 4, 2020
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#30
The_Watchers_2017 said:
you seriously believe that the WORD is little junior?

you believe the Holy Spirit had SEX with Mary?
[[if the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary, how is the Father Jesus' Dad if the Holy Spirit and the Father are different Beings?]]


the Greek word for Begotten is monogenes.

Monogenes means one of a kind, not a child from having SEX!

this thread is depressing if people are thinking God and Paul had sex.

wouldn't God be a HYPOCRITE for sending the Angels to Hell locked up in total Darkness who had sex with human women in Genesis 6 if He turned around and had sex with Mary?
Click to expand...
Not sure where you saw I said anyone had sexual intercourse. Maybe you’re trying to deduce something from my comments. Those questions are interesting, but that isn’t the direction I was intending to go. Feel free to provide answers for them if you wish.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#31
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#31
Runningman said:
Not sure where you saw I said anyone had sexual intercourse. Maybe you’re trying to deduce something from my comments. Those questions are interesting, but that isn’t the direction I was intending to go. Feel free to provide answers for them if you wish.
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you did use the example of the Holy Spirit and Mary: your words [Think back to God’s Holy Spirit causing Mary to become pregnant and giving birth to Jesus.]

if i had no knowledge of this passage of Scripture, how would this read to me?
 
R

Runningman

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#32
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#32
The_Watchers_2017 said:
you did use the example of the Holy Spirit and Mary: your words [Think back to God’s Holy Spirit causing Mary to become pregnant and giving birth to Jesus.]

if i had no knowledge of this passage of Scripture, how would this read to me?
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…and I didn’t say they had sex. I deliberately used the word “causing.”

If you or anyone else doesn’t have any Biblical knowledge of what I am referring to then that’s okay because this is a Bible discussion. In that case, I would direct you to read the gospels starting from the beginning.

I don’t believe you are without any knowledge about this though. So why are you asking me about the nature of Mary’s pregnancy being caused by the Holy Spirit of God?
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

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#33
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#33
Runningman said:
…and I didn’t say they had sex. I deliberately used the word “causing.”

If you or anyone else doesn’t have any Biblical knowledge of what I am referring to then that’s okay because this is a Bible discussion. In that case, I would direct you to read the gospels starting from the beginning.

I don’t believe you are without any knowledge about this though. So why are you asking me about the nature of Mary’s pregnancy being caused by the Holy Spirit of God?
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i really wanted to know if you truly believe the WORD is little Father jr. before He became flesh and called Himself the Son?
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#34
May 24, 2014
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#34
Runningman said:
then why did Paul call Onesimus his begotten son?
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Begotten does not necessarily mean a biologically birthed son. Paul had "adopted" another man's slave after leading him to the Lord. Context is an indispensable tool. Never get hanged up on a translation of a single word.
 
oyster67

oyster67

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#35
May 24, 2014
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#35
Runningman said:
So why are you asking me about the nature of Mary’s pregnancy being caused by the Holy Spirit of God?
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It appears we have switched over to the Mary train now, soooo....

God does not require the use of sexual intercourse to create life. He did not use a "Mrs. God" to create Adam.
 
R

Runningman

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#36
Mar 4, 2020
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#36
oyster67 said:
It appears we have switched over to the Mary train now, soooo....

God does not require the use of sexual intercourse to create life. He did not use a "Mrs. God" to create Adam.
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I was just using that as an example. :9 you believe God’s Holy Spirit caused Mary to become pregnant? I am not saying they had sex, but rather through God’s divine power.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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#37
Dec 15, 2018
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#37
I am glad that is now cleared up
I guess those ancient words can be confusing as people dont ever use the word begotten to say they had a biological child. They just say they gave birth to...or 'had' or popped a sprog out.
 
R

Runningman

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#38
Mar 4, 2020
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#38
Lanolin said:
I am glad that is now cleared up
I guess those ancient words can be confusing as people dont ever use the word begotten to say they had a biological child. They just say they gave birth to...or 'had' or popped a sprog out.
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Begotten can refer to a biological child. It actually isn’t 100% cleared up, at least not for me. I am leaning more in favor of the interpretation of Onesimus being Paul’s spiritually begotten child, but quite frankly, do we even know what it means to be someone’s spiritual child?

Plainly, what does it mean to be someone’s spiritual son?

As far as I know, the only child a Christian should be of is God; not Paul, Peter, etc. So actually this requires more explanation for me.

Matthew 23:9
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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#39
Dec 15, 2018
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#39
well I do know about you but I dont call anyone my Father except God.
My dad is my dad (or 'daddy') but I kind of think of him as different from Father God. I certainly dont have any spiritual inheritance from my dad. My dad never told me the gospel...lots of other people did though, but I heard it online from one girl who Id never met who'd been praying to share with me. That was the time it truly sinked in.
 
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