Once saved always saved?

It’s an interesting idea which takes away free-will and makes you a bit lazy but everyone has a journey to go through and see the light at the end, so God will sort it out in the end.
If they love Jesus that’s what matters to me.

There's no need to complicate things. Keep It Simple.

For all who believe the false teaching of once saved always saved

Let me start this with my own story.

I grow up in 2 small towns in central California and northern California. Taft Ca. Was about 40 miles away and that was the closest town with a Dr. We did have 3 different churches for 1,100 people. During the summer I went to VBS when I was about 10 I said a prayer and asked Jesus into my heart and was baptized. From that point on I thought I was a Christian. The summer between my 7th & 8th grade we moved up north (1968). We moved to Lake county right next door to Mendocino and Humboldt Counties # 1 agriculture export Pot. Needless to say I was not acting like a christian in any way. I still thought I was saved. God created pot so it must be OK to smoke, Etc. Ask me and I would say yes there is a God and Jesus came and died on the cross of my sins, I just do not believe in all that church stuff.

Jump ahead I was in the Navy; I figured out that if I went to chapel on Sunday morning I could get to chow first. So I went to church. By this time I had my first daughter about 4-5 months old so I had quit the drugs, I got my first picture of her and said I have to grow up. And the weed went over the side of the ship. Chaplin gave a message about being 12” from God. God of the mouth and not of the heart. You say I am a Christian with your mouth and your brain but not your heart where it counts. That was the day I got saved. I got into a bible study group and things were good till I got out we moved back to California. I got into a national evangelic church. Service was greeting one another wind everyone up with singing and about 15 min. of a feelgood sermon. They did not teach the something I studied on board ship, they did not take the bible one chapter at a time and go through it verse by verse. They tried to tell me that 2nd Thessalonians 2 did not apply to me because we would be gone in the rapture. I just through up my hands and walked away because that church and the 3 other church I went to were all about the same. Here again I found myself back out into the world through myself into work; I was director of sales and marketing for a large national non chain service. God was not a part of my life. It was not until about 7 years ago my wife's uncle got me back into studying. Worked with me made me get a good Strong's Concordance, Smiths bible dictionary and we started studying chapter by chapter and verse by verse. I was starting to learn hat words mint in the Hebrew and in the Greek, I was learning how God interrupted things in the bible, how to look up reference verses. Know that I am not working I spend 4-5 hrs a day studying, trying to help people on this sight and others understand the truth of God word.

JUST LIKE THIS TODAY ONCE SAVED ALAYS SAVED IS A LIE FROM SATAN!

I can tell you from the time I got out of the Navy until I got with John Ray There were a lot of bad things written in the book that I would have had to answer for and I don't thank I would have made it.

Romans 3

Justified by Faith

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Eli1 and everyone else Please listen to the word of God not to me not some man but to God.

Romans 3:21-26

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

What does verse 25 say “For the remission of sins past, through the forbearance of God. From the time you got saved at age 10 or 100 if you sinned at all knowingly or unknowing you have sines and are in need of forgiveness. Do I thank sin would keep you out of heaven; No. That is just my thoughts God does not give us a number. He does say they are written in the book of life. Do you want to take that chance of it being 10 and you have 11 and are kept out of heaven because you did not ask God to forgive you and put them behind you.

2nd Corinthians 11:12

English Standard Version
And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do.
Berean Standard Bible
But I will keep on doing what I am doing, in order to undercut those who want an opportunity to be regarded as our equals in the things of which they boast.
King James Bible
But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

Verse 13

English Standard Version
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
Berean Literal Bible
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
King James Bible
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
Verse 14

English Standard Version
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Berean Literal Bible
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
King James Bible
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Could you have one of these false apostles, pastors, preachers, teachers Etc. in your church passing the lie of eternal salvation or once always saved.



Lets stay here and go back to verses 3&4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

If Paul who wrote most of the new testament as Jesus gave him the insight and wisdom to do it is worried about someone coming and preaching another Jesus Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse!

Here again could you be under some false teaching.



Matthew 21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

In my book if you sin against a brother of sister you have sinned against God. Jesus say you must forgive them 490 times in a day.

So we can in and when we do we must ask for forgiveness so that they may become sins of the past. Am I saying that gives us a licenses to go out and sin. NO!!

So let's take a look at the whole picture, not just a couple verses. Let's start at your verses in John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

So let's break this down....because I agree, but you have to hear the word of God believe it and do it. Not just believe and sit around and do nothing. What's some of the first things Jesus put on the table to teach, it was repent. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4: 17).

How absolute is every word. Now repenting is work within itself, because you have to change from living a sinful life. Paul says in
1 Timothy 1: 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Yeah ...so Paul is saying a whole lot here people. How can a person be disobedient in God's eyes. How can a person be unholy or a sinner, because sin is transgression of the law. Lets read it in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you.

Then a person can get baptize in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). So you see this a process in life, Jesus did all these things to show us how it's done. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Very well put I hope she has eye to see it and ears to hear it

The Bible speaks of three heavens!


For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27) Of course this verse is for those who have knowledge of the truth.


You may have point, because the lake of fire is actually in the kingdom as well. For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isaiah 66: 22-24)

"Through faith" in not mankind's faith, but is Christ's faith (Gal 2:16).

Rather, let's just BELIEVE what EVERY verse says. And NO verse contradicts any other verse. So why do you think the "whole picture" will force a clear verse to mean something else?

Jn 5:24 is clear enough without all your explanation. Whosoever believes HAS (means possess) eternal life. Period. So, WHEN a person believes, at that very MOMENT, they possess eternal life. Jesus' words.

It seems you are just trying to obfuscate the issue here.

When a person believes, they possess eternal life. John 5:24
When a person receives eternal life, they shall never perish. John 10:28

You cannot refute these facts. And you cannot show that the verses say something other than what I noted.

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you have a verse that plainly says that willful sinning results in loss of salvation? Of course you don't. It doesn't exist.
The phrase "no more sacrifice for sins" is also noted previously.

17 Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

When Jesus went to the cross, He paid for all sins. Therefore, sacrifice for sin is NO LONGER NECESSARY.

So, v.26 is a repeat of v.18. The writer was making the point: with willful sin, animal sacrifice won't work. However, brace yourself for God's divine discipline (judgment and fiery indignation).

Are you aware of the biblical teaching about God's divine discipline towards His own children?

You claim that, "those that God gave to his Son," in John 6:39, Are those that will believe. You also claim that Jesus died for all of those that do not believe. Did not Jesus pay for the sins of all that he died for?

FreeGrace2 said:
Of course I do. Like the Bereans, I search the Scriptures daily to see if what FGC says it true. And I have found verses that refute your limited atonement clearly.
Yes, of course.

He paid for everyone's sins. I chuckle at your calvinist talking points.

Like I said, there are verses that plainly SAY that He died for everyone.

That confuses you because you have been taught that His death SAVES people. No verse says that, however.

For God to save someone, Jesus HAD TO die for them. And Jesus IS the Savior of the world (Jn 4:42). Please don't tell me that the Samaritans were Calvinists.

Here are your veres
Romans 3

Justified by Faith

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Unless you are perfect as Jesus was you will sin. When you do you have to repent of that sin or they begin to build up under your name which is in the book of life. God keeps a record of everything good or bad. Judgment day is not just for those that do not make it. It is also a time of great rejoicing for Christians because we will get our rewards from God some 30 fold, some 60 fold some 100 fold

John 1:

Romans 3

Justified by Faith

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

1st John 3

Children of God

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If we commit sin we can be cut off

Luke 21

12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. 16And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. 18But there shall not an hair of your head perish. 19In your patience possess ye your souls.

This is the unforgivable sin it can only be commuted by a christian. If when delivered up you either try to take matters into your own hands or you just give up to them because you thank that is the only way to stay alive. Ether way it is unforgivable and only christian could commit. it.
end Part 1

Part 2
Here are your verses
John 15

1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

If you do not bear fruit and the only way you can be in the tree that bears good fruit is to be in Jesus. Verse 10 IF that is the biggest little word in the bible. If you keep my commandments. Here again can a sinner keep God commandments? NO! You must be a Born Again Christian in order to keep His commandments and if you don't you are cut off.

There are many more scriptures like this. They all prove that eternal security, once saved always saved is a lie from Satan and is false teaching coming from Satin.

2nd Corinthians 11

12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

I hope you read and understand just what God is saying through His love letter to you “The Bible”

seems like a lot of churches i have been to and left from- instead of telling and advising people on how to lead Godly lives, just like the churches, are just interested in teaching fear of loss of salvation.

unbelief will keep one out of Heaven. and nothing else.

I call that playing church. I do not know if you have read any of the things I have posted about the parables. The parable of the weeds, and others. The people that you and I are talking about are good people they thank they are doing right by God; but they are pew warmers. They come every time the church is open, they set in the same seat they listen to what the pastor says, some read there quarterly and may even look the scripture up in the bible.


They are ill prepared for what is coming. Many Christians active members in the church people you would say are very good Christians but they are ill prepared because of false teaching. The BIGET LIE told in the church today is the rapture. 2 men working in the field one is taken and one is left. Countless times I have heard this “I want to be the first one taken” Taken by who? Jesus NO Satan. The bible makes clear that Satan shows up first at the 6th trump and Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives at the 7th trump That very spot that Abraham was going to sacrifice is own son till God proved him another sacrifice. The spot that the first and second temple sat and the spot where the Dome of the Rock is today. He is going to split that mountain and make a valley where He will set up His millennial temple, city, ect. and where God will come on His throne and hold court. The White throne of judgment at the close of that 1,000 years.


These good people that sit in church thanking they are serving God are going to be deceived. They are going to have to go through that 1,000 years knowing the truth and saying why did I not study! There will be teaching done during that time and at the end Satan will be released for a little time to test them and see if they still will follow him. Sadly many will. Let him who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the churches. Only 2 did God find no fault with. Re you in a church like that or do you even know what 2 they are? That is a study for a latter time.

These verses imply salvation by Christ's death and reserection


Rom 6:6 - Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. This verse does not have the word "saved" in it, but the implication is there.

Rom 5:10 - For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Colossians 1:22 - In the body of his flesh, through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.

If he paid for everyone's sins, then none of mankind's sins will be accountable to them, and they will go to heaven.

Would that be this world:

Psalms 17:14 - from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure; they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes.

Isaiah 13:11 - And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity

Matt 18:7 - Woe unto the world because of offences.

Luke 9:25 - For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself.

John 14:17 - Even the spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive,, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him.

John 15:18 - If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

James 4:4 - Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world, is the enemy of God.

there are only 2 classes of people- those who believe and trust in Christ alone for salvation and are thus saved, or those who do not believe, or have works based sysyem, such as you have, that think your salvation is a joint effort with you and God.

it is not a joint effort. it is either 100% trust in Christ, anything, anything else, no matter how pious it sounds, will work.