Should Christians Follow Scripture Alone or Scripture and Traditions?

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Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#21
May 23, 2016
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#21
ResidentAlien said:
That doesn't make any sense. Sola scriptura just means scripture alone. So how can you follow just scripture and ignore sola scriptura?
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"Sola Scriptura" is a church doctrinal statement that includes all the historical dogma and declarations that go with it. When someone says they believe in "sola Scriptura" it is a declaration that they agree and stand with all that that manmade doctrinal statement entails.

That is very different than saying that I follow Scripture and not man's traditions.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#23
Apr 21, 2021
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#23
Chester said:
"Sola Scriptura" is a church doctrinal statement that includes all the historical dogma and declarations that go with it. When someone says they believe in "sola Scriptura" it is a declaration that they agree and stand with all that that manmade doctrinal statement entails.

That is very different than saying that I follow Scripture and not man's traditions.
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My BS detector is sounding pretty loudly right now. You said you agree with the original poster, who clearly believes we should follow extra-Biblical traditions (which he refuses to name for some reason), but then you say we should only follow scripture. Which is it?
 
XavierJesusLovesIndia

XavierJesusLovesIndia

Banned
#25
Nov 26, 2021
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#25
Here is the Word of God telling us that, in addition to written epistles, the unwritten traditions orally handed down to the Church are to be faithfully held on to by the Church/Christians.

2 Thess 2:15

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

:)
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#26
Apr 21, 2021
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#26
arthurfleminger said:
Instead, Sola Scriptura itself is a 'Man Made Tradition' that arose in the 1500's.
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I'll be honest, I've never heard that. Can you point me to the source of this "tradition?" Who started it exactly?
 
XavierJesusLovesIndia

XavierJesusLovesIndia

Banned
#27
Nov 26, 2021
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#27
Churches which accept and profess the Nicene Creed in their Liturgy - and many do so - are examples of Churches that accept both Tradition and Scripture. Virtually every professing Christian today agrees Nicea's doctrine is Biblically based, yet it is a Church Tradition which makes the Trinitarian Doctrine contained in Scripture more explicit. That's what Tradition does.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#28
Apr 21, 2021
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#28
arthurfleminger said:
What was Paul teaching in 2 Thessalonians 2 when he spoke, "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours."

How does this fit in with Sola Scriptura?
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Before the finished canon came, everything was either by letter or oral statement from Paul in person. I don't take this verse to mean there are things outside of scripture that are also authoritative. It seems a pretty big stretch.

I didn't arrive at my belief in sola scriptura by studying moldy theology texts, but from common sense. If you don't have authoritative scripture—and scripture alone—anarchy prevails.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#29
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#29
XavierJesusLovesIndia said:
Here is the Word of God telling us that, in addition to written epistles, the unwritten traditions orally handed down to the Church are to be faithfully held on to by the Church/Christians.

2 Thess 2:15

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

:)
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And what are that oral tradition why not make it in written
I can say purgatory is oral teaching and how I prove it

easy to lie and blame oral tradition
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#30
Jul 19, 2022
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#30
arthurfleminger said:
What was Paul teaching in 2 Thessalonians 2 when he spoke, "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours."

How does this fit in with Sola Scriptura?
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Sola scripture is a tradition. Tradition is a way of preserving a proper understanding and practice of scripture.
As you can clearly see from the many diverse understandings of scripture posted on this web site. People can go far and wide with their "understanding" of what is written.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#31
Apr 21, 2021
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#31
Dirtman said:
Sola scripture is a tradition. Tradition is a way of preserving a proper understanding and practice of scripture.
As you can clearly see from the many diverse understandings of scripture posted on this web site. People can go far and wide with their "understanding" of what is written.
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Dirtman, does your denomination teach that the only way a person can correctly understand the scriptures is through church tradition? I ask because I think I've heard Lutherans say that. If so, wouldn't that be scripture + church tradition; not truly sola scriptura? How do we know which church traditions are valid?
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#32
Jul 19, 2022
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#32
ResidentAlien said:
Dirtman, does your denomination teach that the only way a person can correctly understand the scriptures is through church tradition? I ask because I think I've heard Lutherans say that. If so, wouldn't that be scripture + church tradition; not truly sola scriptura? How do we know which church traditions are valid?
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No we say tradition is subject to scripture, in other words the scripture controls and establishes the tradition, and tradition becomes a way to preserve understanding and practice of scripture.
As it is evident around here that folks can get way off base.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#33
Apr 21, 2021
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#33
Dirtman said:
and tradition becomes a way to preserve understanding and practice of scripture.
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This is what I'm getting at. The proper understanding of scripture is dependent on the confessions and traditions. Thus scripture + tradition.

Thanks for answering my question. I don't want to make a big deal of it. I guess I just see it differently.
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#34
Jul 19, 2022
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#34
ResidentAlien said:
This is what I'm getting at. The proper understanding of scripture is dependent on the confessions and traditions. Thus scripture + tradition.

Thanks for answering my question. I don't want to make a big deal of it. I guess I just see it differently.
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No sir, thats putting the cart before the horse. Scripture determines tradition. The tradition does not establish or define the understand of scripture. Like a tree produces fruit. The fruit dont determine the tree, the tree determines the fruit. However when the fruit is examined there is no question as to what the tree is. The cherries keep the fool from cutting down the tree because he is too foolish to recognize the tree. However a discerning man can see it is a cherry tree and knows to preserve it even if there is no fruit in that season.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#35
Apr 21, 2021
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#35
Dirtman said:
No sir, thats putting the cart before the horse. Scripture determines tradition. The tradition does not establish or define the understand of scripture. Like a tree produces fruit. The fruit dont determine the tree, the tree determines the fruit. However when the fruit is examined there is no question as to what the tree is. The cherries keep the fool from cutting down the tree because he is too foolish to recognize the tree. However a discerning man can see it is a cherry tree and knows to preserve it even if there is no fruit in that season.
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When was the last time one of your traditions was updated or revised based a new understanding of scripture?
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#36
Jul 19, 2022
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#36
Luther wrote something to the effect of, various churches in various places need not have all the same traditions, their traditions should all point to scripture.
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#37
Jul 19, 2022
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#37
ResidentAlien said:
When was the last time one of your traditions was updated or revised based a new understanding of scripture?
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In the 60s or 70s we had a group who set out to change the traditions based on a new interpretation of scripture, they cause a huge division and ended up being excommunicated and split off. They are now the ELCA and ordain lesbian pastors and are social justice warriors for the homosexual movement.
 
D

Dirtman

Well-known member
#38
Jul 19, 2022
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#38
So which tradition do You think we should change due to it being in violation of scripture?
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#39
Apr 21, 2021
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#39
Dirtman said:
In the 60s or 70s we had a group who set out to change the traditions based on a new interpretation of scripture, they cause a huge division and ended up being excommunicated and split off. They are now the ELCA and ordain lesbian pastors and are social justice warriors for the homosexual movement.
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Well, if they did that, clearly they didn't get it from the Holy Spirit.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#40
Apr 21, 2021
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#40
Dirtman said:
So which tradition do You think we should change due to it being in violation of scripture?
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Like I said, it's not something I want to spend all day debating. I was just interested in your viewpoint.
 
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