Obedience Required?

It is the grace that enables obedience. Real faith leads to obedience. Truth is important because it leads to behavior. What we believe tempers our behavior. First you believe. Then you do.
In order to believe differently God does a work of grace wherein He takes out our heart of stone which could not respond to God because we were dead, and He gives us a heart of flesh that is alive to God and we respond in obedience. No life, no obedience.

I'm amazed people saying the same thing are apt to disagree simply because they use different verbiage.

yeah I agree with what your saying that doesn’t change anything I said though

in the end faith is to trust what God is saying

We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit at rebirth, but men do have enough knowledge to make a choice before salvation.

Oh. I thought you were making the point. And I didn't say that you were putting words into "my" mouth, but the mouth of others.

I wrote: "Be careful not to put words in the mouths of others."

Come on now . . .

We're not using different verbiage. But, if you feel that way, we likely disagree on the definition of terms used.

yeah the thing is brother God did this to give all people a choice the choice comes when we hear

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is sent into all the world to every creature because that’s what gives us the choice to be free

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The world is captive to Satan but If we hear the gospel we have a choice to be free , if we don’t we’re left blind and ignorant and have no choice to be saved

yeah brother I was just responding to what a brother said about god not forcing anyone to believe

it has nothing to do with me putting any words in anyones mouth yours or anyone else’s anyways god bless

Having read your posts it's clear we believe the same on this matter.

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

And considering the things that you have written above, I would have to agree. Whew. How refreshing!

it’s better to look at whole sections


“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:( look what happened later speaking of those same in the beginning who knew god by observing the created things )

because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-32‬ ‭

this is why we need to gospel because that’s all true when Jesus came it’s this

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭

everyone was sold into sin notice how when they chose not to honor Gods judgements and image which they we’re created in, he gave them up to what they chose. To a reprobate mind filled with all wickedness and lusts of diversities because that’s what man had chosen even though they could see that creation was created by God and it reflected his nature and existance to them

so you have this in the beginning

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

instead of walking in that image of Gods children made to reflect his character and nature in goodness righteousness and truth , man chose to become this creature more like a beast than like God

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After this we know he destroys everything g but saves big through grace and faith and then begins again with joy and his sons

the old testsment is what Paul’s talking about e prophets explain that because the covenant was broken l
Mankind had now been deemed sinners and unworthy including israel
By the law after they broke the covenant they became just like everyone else sinners by the flesh and not a reflection of Gods glory and image

we changed the image of God into an image of a sinful person because we’re not supposed to be sinners we’re made to be his image and likeness the gospel is sent to restore us to his image through the knowledge of Christ in the gospel imparting his spirit into our hearts by hearing of faith

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as we grow in the spirit this is happening a restoration to
Our rightful inheritance in creation and our true image the children of God the image of Jesus his son

“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭

we aren’t who man is meant to be but Christ came to redeem us and save us from that Wrs th in the world because of sin without the gospel this can’t happen

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that doesn’t just happen we have to learn and grow in Christ for it to happen from glory to glory and from faith to faith

What is your typing speed, btw?

I don’t know brother , I have a lot of trouble with my fingers so when they are working I have to try to use them

uncle Arthur barks loudly and often , my thumbs are about all I have left for this pad I use I apologize for all the typos I never have enough time to go back and fix everything

I’m really not typing , my nephew who made this account for me , showed my how to use this feature on my pad he bought me with my thumbs , you just slide your finger , but I get alot of typos also and everything it makes it faster and it’s about the only way I can type at all it’s sort of cheating on the speed

he also downloaded a Bible app a couple years ago and showed me how to use it which is why I have such quick access to scriptire it’s called you Bible it’s like three dollars and easy to use

Paul actually explains what occurs in obedience to water baptism:
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Knowing these things about you, your work is that much more impressive. And, I wouldn't worry about mistakes . . . most of us are mature enough to read right through them, not placing judgment based upon grammar.

amen there’s a ton in Paul’s epistles to show us just how deep it all goes we can learn what things like baptism mean to God rather than wondering and figuring what it means To us then just believe and follow his word it goes from what you quoted there all the way to being born again as the seed of Abraham and inheriting the promises made to his true seed Jesus Christ

Just as we are baptized into his death for remission we also are raised up to a new identity and existance ahead when we receive the spirit that means this

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

…For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:8, 16, 26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

which goes back to what oeter was saying about baptism into Christs name also

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( Christs death and burial )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( born again of the spirit into the promised inheritance of Abraham’s seed Gods eternal kingdom )

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is who he called

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

some believe and are going to be saved nd inherit his kingdom and some won’t believe and won’t inherit his kingdom

well I appreciate the kind words brother , honestly impressive is not a word I have ever heard describe anything about me or my work so I laughed hard at that haha

I do my best to communicate here I’m sure as everyone is doing but definately sloppy and sometimes rushed and I wouldnt my self consider it impressive but I can say it’s genuine and from the heart and never Intended to offend though I’m sure it’s very flawed in both presentation and content at times but I claim nothing more than to be a seeker of his word and to learn from and share with everyone else in a good spirit

so I very much appreciate your good spirit and kind words , which by the way just to note is something you regularly and consistently exhibit here in this forum even in disagreements and that is very admirable and an encouragement to do better in that area form myself and I’m sure others also God bless

I feel Like that happens a lot here. We disagree on important terms like faith what does it really mean tangibly To us ?

grace ? What does grace mean biblically not from a dictionary but biblically ?

I think you hit on it there often we’re beginning with different understandings of really important terms we are discussing so it’s hard to come to an agreement on what we’re saying even though , it’s not that different

I realize we disagree on this topic. The reason I speak out is because salvation cannot be both free and merited. It is either grace or works. If you believe works then you have something to boast of. Paul addresses this in Romans 4 and the example of Abraham.
I appreciate the fervency you display. And I hope God will lead you in all truth.