Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

they were not saved, thats why they never entered the promised land.

They ate the same spiritual food. but they did not respond to the food they ate..

OK, so you think that out of the 2 million people who put blood on their doorposts and ate the Passover lamb, and passed through the Red Sea, and that followed the pillar of cloud and the pillar of fie, and drank the water and ate the manna, that 2 were saved and 1,999,998 were not.

No.

OSAS is saying that the people who had TRUE faith in God entered the promised land

those who did not. as shown by their continued lack of faith and sin. were never saved.

I find it amazing you think people who sinned immediately after they were supposedly saved and continued to live in that sin was ever saved.

The "promised land" isn't salvation. It is eternal reward, which is earned. The Israelites had to work to take the land. That is not a picutre of salvation.

What does this even mean? If they ate the food, they ate it. How do you not "respond to the food" you eat? Makes no sense.

Also, why did you ignore v.6 and 11? Paul said that the Exodus generation were "examples for us".

If that crowd weren't saved, and recall that NONE of the adults entered the promised land, INCLUDING Moses himself!!, except two, which were Joshua and Caleb, why would Paul tell us that unbelievers are examples for believers?

In what way would unbelievers be an example for believers? Can you think of any? It's like comparing apples to cauliflower.

No comparison at all.

If the adults weren't saved, then neither was Moses saved. He was prevented from entering the land as well. How do you explain that?

So Moses wasn't saved then.

I find it amazing that anyone would claim that those who didn't enter the land weren't saved, which would include Moses.

Yet, Moses was at the transfiguration of Jesus. Of course he was saved. All the adults were saved, but some were mighty sinful.

I never said moses was not saved did I..

Stop trying to assume what people say..

I believe what the bible says

They these people did not believe. and God promised, they would not enter his rest.

they were not saved, thats why they never entered the promised land.

They ate the same spiritual food. but they did not respond to the food they ate..

Um no

they wandered the wilderness for 40 years because they did not even trust God to do the work for them

since when is a wicked and aduteroud generation who does not have faith saved??

Moses did nto enter his rest, he was a wicked person?

I never said moses was not saved did I..

Stop trying to assume what people say..

Paul SAID they were saved, and used them an an EXAMPLE for believers. That wouldn't be possible if that generation, though adulterous, weren't saved.

Sure fooled me.

"These people" are you referring to those who did not enter the good land? That includes Moses.

So you are referring to Moses

They wandered for 40 years as punishment for their lack of faith in God's promise of the land. Recall the 12 spies who went into the land to check it out. The "majority report" was that the land was too tough to take, and 'lets protect the children'. But Joshua and Caleb said the land was just as wonderful as the Lord said and that the Lord would fight for us.

Instead, the encampment spent the night crying their eyes out. Cry-babies! So God said ONLY those under 20 years of age will enter the land. Later, when Moses was told to "speak to the rock" he was so frustrated with the Israelites that he HIT the rock. From that one bit of disobedience, God told Moses that even he would not enter the land. And he didn't. But God let him see the land from the top of Mt Horeb.

The promised land is NOT about salvation. It's about eternal reward, which is earned. Taking the land required the Jews to fight the people in the land and conquer it. No way that is salvation.


Well, the Exodus generation, for one.

Paul SAID they were saved, and used them an an EXAMPLE for believers. That wouldn't be possible if that generation, though adulterous, weren't saved.

was moses one of the people who that passage was spoken of?

Moses allowed God to work through him did he not? Where do you see Moses showed a lack of faith?

From what you said about the adult generation, it also applies to Moses, who was PREVENTED from entering the land.


Why do you give Moses a pass on your opinion when he suffered the same fate as the rest of the adults, minus Joshua and Caleb?

Heb 3-
16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?
17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness?
18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

v.19 applies to Moses just as much as to the rest.

Numbers 14:29 - In this wilderness your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me.

Numbers 20:12 - But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them.”

Deut 32:51 - This is because both of you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites. Moses' and Aaron's indictment!

Moses didn't enter the land because of his "unbelief", just as Heb 3:19 says.

they were not saved, thats why they never entered the promised land.

OK, so you are now saying that entering the good land is not the only ones who were saved but if you allowed God to work through you then you also are saved? But that does not include those who put the blood on the doorpost? That does not include going through the Red Sea, or eating manna, or following the pillar of cloud or fire? OK, so what exactly does allowing God to work through you include?

I thought you were saying that not entering the promised land was evidence that you were not saved. But apparently that is not the case. So now I understand that if you did enter the promised land (Joshua and Caleb) then you were saved, but if not we aren't sure. We know that Moses was saved (because God worked through him) but do we know that anyone else was saved?

Anyway what I find fascinating with this teaching, which I have never heard before, is that OSAS may mean that you were saved way back when you put the blood on the doorpost but we don't know that for another 40 years after you have been tested and then enter the good land! Wow. I mean wow.