How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?

What is the name of this hybrid religion? What scriptures in Rom 9, Gal 3, and 2 Cor 3 do you think they ignore?

I agree. A person must know a little about Him, what He accomplished, confess Him as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead.

The movement often calls itself Christianity in the same way that LDS calls itself Christianity, but the movement rejects key parts of New Testament scripture. The movement basically coined the term 'dispensationalism' to justify an erroneous concept that God's chosen people are chosen on the basis of flesh rather than on the basis of spirit. Due to the fact this movement identifies primarily with a concurrent covenant dispensationalist model it it is fitting to reference that movement as Dispensationalism.

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" - Rom 9:6 KJV

"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." - Rom 9:8 KJV

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." - Gal 3:7 KJV

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." - Gal 3:16 KJV

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." - Gal 3:19 KJV

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." - Gal 3:24 KJV

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." - Gal 3:26 KJV

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:28-29

"And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart." - 2 Cor 3:13-15 KJV

And...

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." - Rom 2:28-29 KJV

"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." - Heb 11:39-40 KJV

The above are many of the verses that cause trouble for Dispensationalism.

There are concepts in the Dispensationalism mythology that are foundational in their religion. And that includes concepts like:

1) The Church contains only Gentiles
2) All Christians are Gentiles
3) Only 'Jews' as identified by Talmudic Rabbis are true Jews
4) The seed of the promise is not singular and not Christ. The seed of the promise are all of the physical descendants of Isaac.
5) The modern geopolitical state that calls itself Israel is Biblical Israel
6) Talmudic Jews are God's chosen people
7) Christians are not God's chosen people
8) The Bible needs to be interpreted through the lens of the OT. The NT cannot be used to interpret the OT.



I'm glad that you agree, otherwise Islam would be considered a form of Christianity.

I'll give you a basic two point definition of Christianity:

1) the belief in Biblical inerrancy
2) the belief in foundational Church doctrine (e.g. the Trinity)

Do you agree that these two components are necessary for Christianity?

We can have divergences on doctrine, but these two fundamental principles remain the same for all true forms of Christianity. If you agree with this definition, you will see that Dispensationalism is not a type of Christianity because it intentionally contradicts Biblical concepts like Gal 3:16 which provide clarification and correct contexts for OT promises and prophecies. Dispensationalism instead relies on Talmudic Judaic interpretations of OT promises and prophecies at the expense of a correct Christian exegetic. At that point it isn't a doctrinal divergence, it's an unapologetic rejection of Christian scripture because of its incompatibility with Talmudism.

Is it possible to have dispensation ideas that are in line with scripture and aren't part of the capital 'D' Dispensationalism movement? Maybe. We can talk about that. So long as someone accepts Biblical inerrancy, the conversation is worth having. The moment they reject verses in the Bible in order to maintain their position, then it becomes clear that the conversation might as well be between a Christian and a Talmudic Jew because the axioms that are being argued from are different. It's no longer about Christian exegesis at that point, you would literally need to go back to the base argument of defending why the Bible ought be considered the inerrant word of God. It becomes an inter-religious conversation rather than a Christian conversation.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about I suggest you watch the documentary that HealthandHappiness linked. The presenter in the video doesn't call them Dispensationalists by name, but that is the group that he is referring to when he talks about "fake Christians" during his presentation.

At the very least, if you disagree, you can reference against the video to make your counter-arguments.

The movement often calls itself Christianity in the same way that LDS calls itself Christianity, but the movement rejects key parts of New Testament scripture. The movement basically coined the term 'dispensationalism' to justify an erroneous concept that God's chosen people are chosen on the basis of flesh rather than on the basis of spirit. Due to the fact this movement identifies primarily with a concurrent covenant dispensationalist model it it is fitting to reference that movement as Dispensationalism.

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" - Rom 9:6 KJV

"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." - Rom 9:8 KJV

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." - Gal 3:7 KJV

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." - Gal 3:16 KJV

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." - Gal 3:19 KJV

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." - Gal 3:24 KJV

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." - Gal 3:26 KJV

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Gal 3:28-29

"And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart." - 2 Cor 3:13-15 KJV

And...

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." - Rom 2:28-29 KJV

"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." - Heb 11:39-40 KJV

The above are many of the verses that cause trouble for Dispensationalism.

There are concepts in the Dispensationalism mythology that are foundational in their religion. And that includes concepts like:

1) The Church contains only Gentiles
2) All Christians are Gentiles
3) Only 'Jews' as identified by Talmudic Rabbis are true Jews
4) The seed of the promise is not singular and not Christ. The seed of the promise are all of the physical descendants of Isaac.
5) The modern geopolitical state that calls itself Israel is Biblical Israel
6) Talmudic Jews are God's chosen people
7) Christians are not God's chosen people
8) The Bible needs to be interpreted through the lens of the OT. The NT cannot be used to interpret the OT.



I'm glad that you agree, otherwise Islam would be considered a form of Christianity.

I'll give you a basic two point definition of Christianity:

1) the belief in Biblical inerrancy
2) the belief in foundational Church doctrine (e.g. the Trinity)

Do you agree that these two components are necessary for Christianity?

We can have divergences on doctrine, but these two fundamental principles remain the same for all true forms of Christianity. If you agree with this definition, you will see that Dispensationalism is not a type of Christianity because it intentionally contradicts Biblical concepts like Gal 3:16 which provide clarification and correct contexts for OT promises and prophecies. Dispensationalism instead relies on Talmudic Judaic interpretations of OT promises and prophecies at the expense of a correct Christian exegetic. At that point it isn't a doctrinal divergence, it's an unapologetic rejection of Christian scripture because of its incompatibility with Talmudism.

Is it possible to have dispensation ideas that are in line with scripture and aren't part of the capital 'D' Dispensationalism movement? Maybe. We can talk about that. So long as someone accepts Biblical inerrancy, the conversation is worth having. The moment they reject verses in the Bible in order to maintain their position, then it becomes clear that the conversation might as well be between a Christian and a Talmudic Jew because the axioms that are being argued from are different. It's no longer about Christian exegesis at that point, you would literally need to go back to the base argument of defending why the Bible ought be considered the inerrant word of God. It becomes an inter-religious conversation rather than a Christian conversation.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about I suggest you watch the documentary that HealthandHappiness linked. The presenter in the video doesn't call them Dispensationalists by name, but that is the group that he is referring to when he talks about "fake Christians" during his presentation.

At the very least, if you disagree, you can reference against the video to make your counter-arguments.

Am I correct in thinking you hold to replacement theology, where the Christian church replaced Israel?

Acts 3:21 - [Peter, speaking to "ye men of Israel" v.12,14,15,19a] -

"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive UNTIL the TIMES of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."



... and what all was that?

Am I correct in thinking you hold to replacement theology, where the Christian church replaced Israel?

It would certainly be the case that if Christ is in Israel that those in Christ are also in Israel. It would also be the case that if Israel is in Christ that Israel would be part of the Church.

Either way you look at it, if Israel is saved in Christ, that makes Israel Christian or destined to be Christian, like Saul becoming Paul. Anyone that disagrees with that is at best a heretic and at worst not Christian.

A theory which is heretical BTW.

It would certainly be the case that if Christ is in Israel that those in Christ are also in Israel. It would also be the case that if Israel is in Christ that Israel would be part of the Church.

Either way you look at it, if Israel is saved in Christ, that makes Israel Christian or destined to be Christian, like Saul becoming Paul. Anyone that disagrees with that is at best a heretic and at worst not Christian.

And in MY BELIEF, GOD IS THE AUTHOR OF POETIC JUSTIC. So you should expect to have a JEW on each side of you, every time we stand before the Throne of GRACE.

Leviticus 4:20 (GW)
20 He will do the same thing with this bull that he did with the bull used as the offering for sin. So the priest will make peace with the LORD for the people, and they will be forgiven.

Isaiah 33:24 (GW)
24 No one who lives {in Zion} will say, “I'm sick.” The sins of its inhabitants will be forgiven.

I accidentally got your post, on that last one, but I agree with you, and NOT WITH HIM. Not even sure how I did it. Sorry.

. . .
I'll give you a basic two point definition of Christianity:

1) the belief in Biblical inerrancy
2) the belief in foundational Church doctrine (e.g. the Trinity)

Do you agree that these two components are necessary for Christianity?

. . .

Acts 3:21 - [Peter, speaking to "ye men of Israel" v.12,14,15,19a] -

"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive UNTIL the TIMES of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."



... and what all was that?

Hosea 5:14 For I am like a lion to Ephraim
and like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them to pieces
and then go away.
I will carry them off
where no one can rescue them.
15 Then I will return to My place
UNTIL they admit their guilt and seek My face;
in their affliction they will earnestly seek Me. [or, will seek Me early]”

6:1 Come, let us return to the LORD.
For He has torn us to pieces,
but He will heal us;
He has wounded us,
but He will bind up our wounds.
2 After two days He will revive us;
on/in the third day He will raise us up,
that we may live in His presence.
3 So let us know—
let us press on to know the LORD.
As surely as the sun rises,
He will appear;
He will come to us like the rain,
like the spring showers that water the earth [or, like the latter [spring] rains unto the earth].



[see also Ezek37:11,12-14,20,21-23... Israel coming up out of the graveyard of nations, where "scattered"...which is likened unto a "resurrection" in these passages and more-->(Rom11:15,[25,26,27(comp.Isa27:9,12-13/Matt24:29-31/Dan9:24)], Dan12:1-4, Isa26:13-21,19, etc... all re: Israel's "future"...)]

Make an argument about what you think these passages are saying.

Make an argument about what you think these passages are saying.