Struggling reading through romans 8 & 9 and Calvinism.

Accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is an act of faith. (True Doctrine.)

Don't think so. That's so wrong in so many ways.

Accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior comes first.

Do you claim to have some higher knowledge than the rest of us?

Repenting, believing in the gospel, accepting Jesus as your savior, and confessing your sins is the cause of your eternal deliverance. Jesus did all the rest. To deny this is to deny the Gospel.

There are only two groups within mankind: those who will be saved and those who won't be. The "this people" are of those who won't be.

You are saying that every gentile can hear salvation? No, just like "all Israel is not of Israel", neither are all gentiles of those who hear. Those who do are those who were destined by God to do so.

Of himself, man cannot/ will not choose to accept what God has said - they cannot unless first unblinded, but the unblinding comes from becoming saved.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Only those who are given faith through the fruit of the Spirit come to a belief in Christ. That baptism is the receiving of Holy Spirit through Christ. And for those who do, they will experience the full manifestation of salvation on the last day.

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

If you believe the above, then you believe in yourself as saviour, thereby eliminating Christ as Saviour.

Please read the following verses closely. Verse 21 tells us clearly that God alone establishes a person in Christ. We cannot do so.

[2Co 1:21 KJV] 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

[2Co 1:22 KJV] 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

[Eph 4:30 KJV] 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If a dead person is given a choice, can he choose? The unsaved are spiritually dead in sin and therefore completely unable to choose.
Only God can make alive those dead in sin - that is salvation.

[Eph 2:1, 5 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; ...
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

How can unsaved man choose Christ if he is "full of evil and "madness in their heart" (below) before becoming saved?

[Ecc 9:3 KJV]
3 This [is] an evil among all [things] that are done under the sun, that [there is] one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart while they live, and after that [they go] to the dead.

[Rom 3:10-11 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

[2Ti 1:7 KJV]
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Adam, Eve, and Satan causes/ed man's evil, not God. However, it is God who judges it.
Therefore, no one deserves salvation. It is only by God's mercy, grace, and His divine prerogative to do so, that He
bestows salvation upon those whom He has chosen to give it to. Please read these verses carefully:

[Eph 2:7-10 KJV]
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[2Co 1:21 KJV] 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

Again, Christ alone is the Saviour in all possible ways, we are not. Anything that we may attempt to do to achieve salvation is a work and we cannot be saved by our works - anything not received as a gift from God is a work. That is the gospel's message.

The Church.
The Unbelieving Gentiles.
The End-Time Jews.
The OT Men of Faith.
:
:

Yes.

That is because they would not come by faith like their brethren in the Early Church.

Correct. Many refuse to hear.

Those who do are those who chose. Have you chosen to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior? If not, then I implore you to please do so today.

God calls all men to be saved...
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

The Bible has been published for all to read but those who are spiritually blind, and dead are blind and dead to the gospel.

They can't accept because they are spiritually blind and dead.
God published the truth in the Bible. You confuse the result of Satan, Adam and Eve actions with that of God - Satan, Adam and
Eve are the culprits. God only judges what they, and the unsaved of mankind bring forth.

[Rom 5:19 KJV]
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

God doesn't force, He transforms. He transforms from death to life. Those He saves become new people, with the old person gone.

A choice was possible while in the garden, but no longer after the garden - see Rom 5:19 above: MANY WERE MADE SINNERS because of satan, Adam and Eve.


No. In a fallen state, no one can comprehend the truth - they must first be saved.

[Rom 3:10-12 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Sorry, not exactly sure of your point, but everyone ever born is either of those to be saved or of those who will not be saved.
No third category.

Remember, the hearing is spiritual hearing, not physical hearing. Not everyone can hear on that basis, only those chosen can.
See the "cannot hear my word" below.

[Jhn 43 KJV 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

Respectfully, no, instead, could not come to faith. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit given upon becoming born-again and indwelt by Him.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

To be saved on that basis would be salvation by our work, and we cannot be saved by our works.

[Rom 4:4-5 KJV]
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Cherry Picking I see!!

Add Verse 9 and you clearly understand Paul is showing there's no difference between Jew and Gentile.

But the sentiment of your Verses are incorrect to the post you were answering.

After hearing.......the Gospel.......we become able to accept or deny God based upon our own will.

They can't hear. Spiritual ears are required for that.

Disagree. The keyword in that verse is "hear". Only those given spiritual hearing can hear.
Notice below that for those to hear, their ears had to first have been "blessed" by God.
Had they not been, then they too would have not heard. That blessing only comes with/from
becoming saved/born again

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

“Again, Christ alone is the Saviour in all possible ways, we are not. Anything that we may attempt to do to achieve salvation is a work and we cannot be saved by our works - anything not received as a gift from God is a work. That is the gospel's message”

“Again, Christ alone is the Saviour in all possible ways, we are not.”

right , so should we believe what he says our salvation ? Or reject it and say “ anyone who believes him isn’t recognizing who their savior is ?

The only savior said

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is that a trick ?

The only savior doesn’t want anyone to perish

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is he lying ?

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is he deceiving ? And misteaching !

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is he creating un necassary thoughts that people need to hear and apply his teachings ?

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is he lying again ?

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again that savior of ours must be just blowing smoke or something he can’t really expect us to hear what he is saying in the gospel of the kingdom which he sent into all the world so everyone could hear it and believe and be saved.

He can’t really be telling us what he’s telling us in the gospel because that would lead us to repent and start obeying God then we’d “ become our own savior” if we listen and learn from him

it always is surprising how far hypergracer will go to avoid What Jesus said maybe some people actually are incapable

But I would say they chose this instead

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬

once they choose the fable it makes it really hard for them to accept the truth

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

about false teachings will turn a persons ears away from the truth which is too bad

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

No wonder he wants thier ears turned away from the truth who wants to lose his prisoners and slaves to freedom ?


Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It sounds nice to say I don’t need to do anything Jesus said I need to do I’m already saved

But the one thing it requires a person to do is reject what he taught will save them and invent reasons why it’s not true

It always turns strange when a Joseph prince acolyte tries to explain the Bible

But it does show an informed decision when we hear and reject and hear and reject and hear and reject it also shows not everyone is willing to believe what he said and be saved based on a doctrine teaching “ don’t listen to what Jesus said will save you , listen to me instead “

This one? Hmmm -that would then include everyone.

[Rom 3:9 KJV] 9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Only those given spiritual ears by God can "hear" spiritually. That is received only by first becoming saved

I answered this several times. the "heareth" is spiritual hearing - it is given by God with becoming saved and born again. The "believeth" comes only by the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Let's dispense henceforth with the verses that include "hear" or "hearing" or believeth" or similar, as you should understand
by now what my response will be.

And upon the Cross Yeshua cried out to Forgive Them (that's plural).

We're all guilty for the death of Christ.

Yes, and?

I should have included, yes plural, but it was not intended to include everyone.

“A choice was possible while in the garden, but no longer after the garden “

Not that scripture has held any weight in this conversation so far but you acknowledge Adam had a choice so what about under the law ?

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭

What about after during the latter prophets ?

“Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It’s quite impossible to discuss the Bible when we won’t acknolwedge what it says because we’ve been told other things so we just reason away wha the plainly there for us to learn and accept as truth

Did the law give the people a choice ?


“I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, “

Why did God turn on them ?

“Yea, they have chosen their own ways, “when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.”

Either the Bible has everything wrong or some of us do I’d say Gods given mankind a choice always whenever God says something it becomes a choice to the person

“your free to eat of any tree , but of this tree you must not eat or you’ll die “

“ I have set before you life and death blessing and cursing chi pose life so he may live “

“ Go into all the world preach the gospel whoever believes and is baptized shall
Be saved “ whoever believes not shall be damned “

“For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: as free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your free but don’t use that freedom to do evil ,use your freedom for doing good

Its a choice it’s always been a choice and always been true that if a man chooses to hear what God is saying to him he will surely live

It’s never going to not be a choice it’s never going to be gods fault if we won’t obey him and never going to be his fault if we reject the word of Jesus Christ which is the gospel

Its an invitation , some won’t find it worth thier time others will and they will choose Jesus over the world and they will inherit the kingdom he promises them in his words

If satan can make people think “ you have no choice “ they will never repent which he wants for them

if anyone chooses to accept the gospel God will set them free and bring them to repentance

life and death is before the nations how we receive it is what’s going to determine our end

we can freely say “ I don’t want what Jesus is teaching “

or freely say “ that’s my lord teaching me about salvation and eternal Life “

The latter choice leads to Gods kingdom

Don't understand your point. And I always provide scripture with my replies.


Maybe the problem is with your understanding - and with your comment, we're done.

yeah you’ve explained a lot of things and rejected a lot of scripture so I’m ok with leaving it where it is I’m never going to be willing to reject scripture and accept explainations of why it’s wrong

Ill always just believe the gospel Jesus promises will save people who here and believe him that’s not ever going to be taken from me personally but that’s my own choice

we do have the freedom to choose to believe as we will , so I respect your choice to believe what you believe

you really don’t understand my point ? Or maybe you actually do and this is a distraction ? Notice how you skipped the scriptures I left and won’t acknowledge what they say ? Let me show you again

Your whole argument is that we can’t choose they could in Eden but we can’t we have no choice so I offered


“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭

What about after during the latter prophets ?

“Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭66:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Which was a response to you explaining we have no choice now your in a huff and this is your conclusion and response


“Maybe the problem is with your understanding - and with your comment, we're done”

But yes I’m okay also with letting it be where it is

You are contradicting your own self.

Yes, it is an act of spiritual faith that comes as a fruit of the Holy Spirit that indwels those that have been quickened by God to the new spiritual life. The unregenerate person will not, and indeed, cannot accept Jesus as his Savior by the things that Jesus taught that are spiritual things, because he thinks spiritual things are foolishness.