Single-dom and The Holidays... What are Your Memories, Thoughts, and Survival Tips?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,943
4,587
113
#41
Hi seoul, First a thought about adoption. My favorite show is 'Long Lost Family' about, either parents searching for children they adopted out or the children looking for their birth parents. Out of the many episodes, I can only think of 1 and 2 at the most where the bio parent rejected their babies. The majority couldn't keep them because they couldn't support them and/or had pushy family members forcing them to give up their babies. Nowadays with ancestry.com, bio relatives are being traced through DNA samples as you probably know.
Also one of my Christmas wishes would be for the Lord to open ways for all the single men and ladies who are longing for a family life to casually meet and find a person they connect with and commit to making it work. Hopefully some would see it as a 'go for it or go home alone' moment. Just saying....anyway the response from 'justahumanbeing' triggered this along with my knowledge of the adoption process. As long as someone is breathing and has a hopeful, prayerful attitude, they got a chance.
Hi Tabin!

Thanks for taking the time to post. You have me thinking about a few things...

It's funny how human reasoning works -- and ties into another thread going on regarding Logical vs. Emotional thinking. I think most adoptees are very aware that the most likely reason they were given up is because the parents felt they could not care for them, and it seems like a perfectly logical reason.

But then the emotions kick in. I have met some adoptees who have then thought things such as, "Well if they couldn't take care of me, they should have been more careful and not had me in the first place," or, if they have older siblings that were kept instead of them, "They should have just stopped having kids rather than have more that they were just going to throw away."

Something about most human beings, and I think it's probably a combination of spiritual, biological, and social factors, desperately wants to belong to their original family, no matter what the cost or explanation.

Being accepted by one family means you were given up by another, and for reasons I have yet to ascertain for myself, for most that registers as rejection, no matter how logical the reasons are.

We can think of simple social situations -- maybe no one talks to you at the company Christmas party -- and most people in this situation will feel completely rejected, even if it might be because everyone else brought someone they knew and they were shy about approaching you. There could be very logical explanations -- but it still leaves the person feeling rejected nonetheless. Some people will even become bitter and hold grudges over these kinds of events for a very long time, if not forever.

So one can only imagine the scope of knowing that someone's own parents gave them up, as it is rejection on a completely different plane -- even with a logical explanation -- and it sticks, often for a lifetime.

Those DNA tests that are offered now are intriguing, but they also bring up questions about rights and privacy. We all know how Google pretty much knows everything about us with the tap of the button -- imagine large corporations having access to every private citizen's DNA.

While sometimes these testings can reunite families and bring people together in wonderful, tear-filled reunions that everyone loves, I've read about these tests doing just as much damage as they are doing good.

For instance, the father who finds out the child he has raised all of his or her life isn't his. (I believe the father has every right to know, but imagine the shock to everyone involved.) The person who "accidentally" finds out they were adopted (because their DNA doesn't match anyone else in the family) and is rejected or asked to keep playing along because they parents have always passed that child off as their own (and it would be seen as disgraceful if anyone found out.)

I've also read about people who have found their birth parents or DNA relatives only to be rejected all over again, because, for instance, it was an unwanted pregnancy (perhaps due to rape, incest, etc.) that no one wants to remember or acknowledge. This brings about the question as to how much right biological parents have to stay anonymous when they don't want to be discovered.

I don't know what the actual statistics are of those who have been happily reunited vs. those who have found only more grief, but I would highly suspect that any kind of entertainment venue or show will very heavily skew its presentation towards the positive or at the very least, the most commercially appealing. Everyone rallies around the story of parents who gave their baby up "in the hopes that he or she would have a better life." But what about all the cases in which the baby is given up -- because its conception was the result of a father abusing his own daughter? I would venture to guess that there are many more cases of things like this resulting in adoptions than what anyone talks about. I'm all for the positive things these tests can do, but I highly suspect that there is a lot of negative that simply gets swept under the rug due to audience discomfort, which would fail to garner high ratings.

And then there is the issue of rights and privacy.

I only recently learned about an African American woman named Henrietta Lacks whose cancer cells were collected during a biopsy in the 1950's. Something very unusual was discovered about her cells, and they were not only kept, but used to go on to pioneer a myriad of scientific and medical advances. This was all done without Ms. Lacks' knowledge or permission.

On one hand, it's great that so many other people have been helped because of this one incredible woman. But on the other hand, in later years, scientists basically saw her entire family as a big series of petri dishes and started contacting them for samples, because they were trying to figure out what made her cells so different and if there was a genetic factor that had been passed down.

Imagine the family's shock when all of a sudden, out of the blue, the medical community is pretty much demanding blood and tissue samples from all your family members, including your children, and you don't know why.

It's only been in recent years that the Lacks family has been able to start the uphill battle of gaining back their rights, privacy, and possible compensation.

Two other caveats I've read about using DNA sampling to try to find biological relatives are that, unless I'm misunderstanding, in order to find a match, you would have to send samples (as well as pay the outlandish fees) to as many companies as possible, because the only way they can match you is if by some chance, your relatives sent samples to the exact same company you are using.

These companies are not particularly known to have the highest moral standards. While I would guess they probably put everyone's information into a universal database, on paper, they supposedly aren't allowed to share them with others -- but we all know how that goes.

Still, if I'm understanding correctly, you would have to hope that your long-lost relative whom you've never met on the other side of the world just happens to pay for and send in a DNA testing kit to the exact same American company you sent yours to as well. I could be wrong, but I see this as about a one in a billion (or more) chance.

The other thing I've read is that these DNA testings have also been used to link and convict people of crimes, even though this is not supposed to be the intended use of an individual's sample. Now of course, I'm all for violent and dangerous criminals being caught and brought to justice using whatever means is available.

But I think we've also all read about cases in which the DNA wasn't a match or was more circumstantial rather than a direct link to the crime, and its was seen as "close enough."

So my other concern with this technology is, how many innocent people are going to put away because of its use?

I'm certainly not trying to undermine the value that these scientific breakthroughs can have, but I think we all have to lean on the side of caution as we approach them.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,927
8,175
113
#42
And then there is the issue of rights and privacy.

I only recently learned about an African American woman named Henrietta Lacks whose cancer cells were collected during a biopsy in the 1950's. Something very unusual was discovered about her cells, and they were not only kept, but used to go on to pioneer a myriad of scientific and medical advances. This was all done without Ms. Lacks' knowledge or permission.

On one hand, it's great that so many other people have been helped because of this one incredible woman. But on the other hand, in later years, scientists basically saw her entire family as a big series of petri dishes and started contacting them for samples, because they were trying to figure out what made her cells so different and if there was a genetic factor that had been passed down.

Imagine the family's shock when all of a sudden, out of the blue, the medical community is pretty much demanding blood and tissue samples from all your family members, including your children, and you don't know why.

It's only been in recent years that the Lacks family has been able to start the uphill battle of gaining back their rights, privacy, and possible compensation.
I may have played too many stealth-action games... I just imagined a new Metal Gear Solid game where that is the mission.

"Snake your mission is to sneak into the small village unseen and get a liver biopsy, a skin sample and three pints of blood. You've been given an array of non-lethal armaments - gas grenades, flashbangs, tranq darts, rubber bullets - because we don't want to kill any of these people for any reason."
 
Mar 25, 2020
440
243
43
#43
Hi @justahumanbeing ,

Thank you for taking the time to post.

You said that I am "blessed and lucky" to have had a relationship and marriage. Well I guess it all depends on how you look at it. I wrote a bit about this in the original post, but it did not wind up being a healthy or happy marriage at all. Toward the end, the last 6-8 months, we lived on opposite ends of the house. He refused to talk to me about anything except for a day that he told me, "I have a job interview in (another city, almost 2 hours away,)" and I knew he was saying, "I am on without you.") He told me nothing of any of his plans other than that.

It was a long time ago, so I forget all the time frames, but I came home to find the house half gone. He had moved out without telling me while I was at work. At one point, he came back, but only for about a month, and then he was gone again, this time forever. Some time later, I got papers in the mail with the headline, "You Are Being Sued For Divorce."

He never gave me a reason why. The good Christian community told me I didn't have a Biblical divorce and so, in my 20's, I was told that in order to obey God, I could never date or marry anyone again, because remarriage would be adultery. I was in graduate school at the time, and I eventually broke. I left the area to take on a full-time job to pay the bills I was now responsible for on my own.

A long time after that (at least 6 months, maybe almost a year? It's all blurry now...) one of my friends called me at 2 in the morning and said, "There is something you need to know." My ex had stayed in the same area I had left, and he and his girlfriend (a co-worker of ours) had finally gone public. He had left me because he had fallen in love with her, and she had left her long-term boyfriend to be with him.

Years later, I found out he remarried and had kids. I've never done either.

It's the age old question -- Is it better to have loved and lost, or to have never loved at all? I still debate which one would have been less painful. For me, one of the reasons the marriage had been so important to me is because of the numerous rejections I'd had in my own life. I had thought I had finally found a place where I belonged, when in the end, what really happened is that I was simply replaced.

When we had our divorce hearing in court (the last time I ever saw him or spoke to him, except for when he called me to get something he was storing for his girlfriend at our former residence,) all I was hearing him tell the judge and everyone else in the room is he didn't want me anymore, and just wanted to be rid of me in every way possible to move on with his life.

Was I lucky and blessed to have had that marriage? I tend to think not. I've had lots of other people who have experienced continual rejection in their own lives tell me I was blessed to be married, but I guess it's one of those things where the only way to know is to live through it and then come to a conclusion. There are so many things I wish I could go back in time and change, and perhaps one of them is that maybe I should have never have met him at all. And I say all of this not for pity, but only to say, I honestly believe I wound up in a much worse place, both emotionally and chronologically, for having gone through this. It left damage I will always carry.

This is just myself, but I found that what was even worse than rejection was having someone vow to love you and be with you for the rest of your life, only to decide he felt he had made a huge mistake and then wanted to be with someone else instead. For me, one of the most broken things about this life is that someone can go from being your spouse one day to literally a stranger in the world the next, and then go on to be someone else's spouse instead.

I am also adopted, and while I am ever most grateful for my adopted parents, that also means that for whatever ungiven reason, my birth parents rejected and did not want me. Knowing that both my biological parents and now my husband didn't want to have anything to do with me was too much for me to handle at the time, and is still too much if I really start to think about it. Again, I say this not for pity, but because I understand how deeply rejection cuts.

Rejection is indeed horrible and I am so sorry for all the rejections and losses you've had in your own life. It certainly sounds like you have many more than your fair share.

It's a great testimony to your faith and God's presence in your life that you still feel joy around Christmas, even with so many things going wrong.

I hope you will have a wonderful Christmas this year as well, and I'll say a prayer for you and your Mom. God bless you for clinging on to what is truly important in this life, our hope in Christ.
I didn't know it was like that for you. I'm sorry. What happened to you is no small thing and it shows how much God has blessed you. He has blessed you because you're strong enough to bear your Cross. Or that God is still with you in all those troubles and has seen you through all that.

Our Lord Himself was rejected by people who knew Him on the Cross. Even the Father left Him on His own, so that Jesus said, "Eli Eli Lema Sabachtani." My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?"

It all happened to fulfil God's salvific plan for the human race. In the same way, what happened to you and me happened because God allowed it. Because through that, God will use us for His glory and will lead us to greener pastures.

Although I don't know what to say for what happened to you. It's a very cruel way to treat someone who loves you like that. I would never do that to the woman whom I would love personally. From what you described, there was no openness in your marriage with you and your then life partner. For that matter most people shouldn't be that cold hearted and selfish towards their spouse even if they want to part ways with the spouse.

There's nothing I say that can heal or provide you with comfort for what happened in your life. But from what you said, you didn't do anything wrong. It is not your fault something like that happened. It could happen to anyone. No, I don't pity you. I admire your courage to share this with me and I will pray for you sister Seoulsearch. As will the brothers and sisters who go through your testimony.

God has given you the strength to forgive and to move on. Not all can do that.

My father married my mother. It was an arranged marriage. I've seen a lot of violent fights home when I was 2 to 3 years old. You know, my family and back then, there was no divorce.

My mother had no desire to marry my father. She didn't want to. She struggled with her in laws. She took us to school. Attended parent teacher meetings. Disciplined us. My father just left the family and went abroad and squandered all the money. Me and my brother grew up without him. We hardly knew the man. And before we knew it, he died too. My mother had just reached her 40s at the time. But none of her family ever asked her if she wanted to remarry again.

Watching all this, I carried a lot of hurt and grief. Martial arts was a way to find something which could fill what was missing.

I always looked to teachers and professors in college to learn from them what I couldn't from my father.

God eventually put me among people and I learned. I have a small support system. But I hardly talk about the things I share here with most people. Because it's often hard to be listened to and to be understood by people.

I don't know what else I can say for the things that happened to you. But all this means that God does have plans for your future and He will bless you. Just believe Him and keep asking Him for what you want.

When God brought Lot and his family out of Sodom, He told them not to look back.

In the same way, God has relieved you from people who are not good for your life. Don't look back.

"The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning." Lamentations. Chapter 3. Verses 22 to 23.

Everyday is a new day. You are here, not in the past. God has brought you to a beautiful place and He will bless you.

Again, I'm not saying anything. It's okay to reminisce. But there will come a time when God will bless you with so much joy that you will forget the bad stuff. Just keep praying and moving forward. Be blessed always.

You aren't alone this Christmas. I will pray for you and your family. Wishing you a blessed Christmas day in advance. God bless
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
3,679
1,435
113
#44
I'm not bothered at all by people who are married and have families, let them enjoy it. The pictures and videos may show good times, but that's just a snap shot of the inner works of the family unit. If the family life was only 2 hours a week, that would be great, but it's a full time job. There is enough work that needs to be done, without adding family work to the list of responsibilities.

For some reason, I have always been independent thinker, loner at heart, and always seemed to be living against the grain of society. I find it silly that people get wrapped up in Catholic Holidays, it's a lot easier viewing the masses outside in, rather than people apart of group think. Commercialism and media have done tremendous damage to Western society, it's best just to laugh at it, and have other priorities.

I'm a little worried how far of an outcast I might become though, but the more I distance myself from worldly ideas and social norms, the more peace it brings me. Someone has to be the black sheep of the family right? lol

Life has it's ups and downs no matter where you are in life, so don't think on the things you don't have, but be thankful for the things you do have.

If you think you have it rough, just imagine if you lived in Europe during the Middle Ages... We get to live our lives, practice our faith, and make our own choices. Be very thankful for these things, because many people in the past, have only dreamt of this freedom.

1671400072776.jpeg
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
12,378
10,058
113
#45
Hi Tabin!

Thanks for taking the time to post. You have me thinking about a few things...

It's funny how human reasoning works -- and ties into another thread going on regarding Logical vs. Emotional thinking. I think most adoptees are very aware that the most likely reason they were given up is because the parents felt they could not care for them, and it seems like a perfectly logical reason.

But then the emotions kick in. I have met some adoptees who have then thought things such as, "Well if they couldn't take care of me, they should have been more careful and not had me in the first place," or, if they have older siblings that were kept instead of them, "They should have just stopped having kids rather than have more that they were just going to throw away."

Something about most human beings, and I think it's probably a combination of spiritual, biological, and social factors, desperately wants to belong to their original family, no matter what the cost or explanation.

Being accepted by one family means you were given up by another, and for reasons I have yet to ascertain for myself, for most that registers as rejection, no matter how logical the reasons are.

We can think of simple social situations -- maybe no one talks to you at the company Christmas party -- and most people in this situation will feel completely rejected, even if it might be because everyone else brought someone they knew and they were shy about approaching you. There could be very logical explanations -- but it still leaves the person feeling rejected nonetheless. Some people will even become bitter and hold grudges over these kinds of events for a very long time, if not forever.

So one can only imagine the scope of knowing that someone's own parents gave them up, as it is rejection on a completely different plane -- even with a logical explanation -- and it sticks, often for a lifetime.

Those DNA tests that are offered now are intriguing, but they also bring up questions about rights and privacy. We all know how Google pretty much knows everything about us with the tap of the button -- imagine large corporations having access to every private citizen's DNA.

While sometimes these testings can reunite families and bring people together in wonderful, tear-filled reunions that everyone loves, I've read about these tests doing just as much damage as they are doing good.

For instance, the father who finds out the child he has raised all of his or her life isn't his. (I believe the father has every right to know, but imagine the shock to everyone involved.) The person who "accidentally" finds out they were adopted (because their DNA doesn't match anyone else in the family) and is rejected or asked to keep playing along because they parents have always passed that child off as their own (and it would be seen as disgraceful if anyone found out.)

I've also read about people who have found their birth parents or DNA relatives only to be rejected all over again, because, for instance, it was an unwanted pregnancy (perhaps due to rape, incest, etc.) that no one wants to remember or acknowledge. This brings about the question as to how much right biological parents have to stay anonymous when they don't want to be discovered.

I don't know what the actual statistics are of those who have been happily reunited vs. those who have found only more grief, but I would highly suspect that any kind of entertainment venue or show will very heavily skew its presentation towards the positive or at the very least, the most commercially appealing. Everyone rallies around the story of parents who gave their baby up "in the hopes that he or she would have a better life." But what about all the cases in which the baby is given up -- because its conception was the result of a father abusing his own daughter? I would venture to guess that there are many more cases of things like this resulting in adoptions than what anyone talks about. I'm all for the positive things these tests can do, but I highly suspect that there is a lot of negative that simply gets swept under the rug due to audience discomfort, which would fail to garner high ratings.

And then there is the issue of rights and privacy.

I only recently learned about an African American woman named Henrietta Lacks whose cancer cells were collected during a biopsy in the 1950's. Something very unusual was discovered about her cells, and they were not only kept, but used to go on to pioneer a myriad of scientific and medical advances. This was all done without Ms. Lacks' knowledge or permission.

On one hand, it's great that so many other people have been helped because of this one incredible woman. But on the other hand, in later years, scientists basically saw her entire family as a big series of petri dishes and started contacting them for samples, because they were trying to figure out what made her cells so different and if there was a genetic factor that had been passed down.

Imagine the family's shock when all of a sudden, out of the blue, the medical community is pretty much demanding blood and tissue samples from all your family members, including your children, and you don't know why.

It's only been in recent years that the Lacks family has been able to start the uphill battle of gaining back their rights, privacy, and possible compensation.

Two other caveats I've read about using DNA sampling to try to find biological relatives are that, unless I'm misunderstanding, in order to find a match, you would have to send samples (as well as pay the outlandish fees) to as many companies as possible, because the only way they can match you is if by some chance, your relatives sent samples to the exact same company you are using.

These companies are not particularly known to have the highest moral standards. While I would guess they probably put everyone's information into a universal database, on paper, they supposedly aren't allowed to share them with others -- but we all know how that goes.

Still, if I'm understanding correctly, you would have to hope that your long-lost relative whom you've never met on the other side of the world just happens to pay for and send in a DNA testing kit to the exact same American company you sent yours to as well. I could be wrong, but I see this as about a one in a billion (or more) chance.

The other thing I've read is that these DNA testings have also been used to link and convict people of crimes, even though this is not supposed to be the intended use of an individual's sample. Now of course, I'm all for violent and dangerous criminals being caught and brought to justice using whatever means is available.

But I think we've also all read about cases in which the DNA wasn't a match or was more circumstantial rather than a direct link to the crime, and its was seen as "close enough."

So my other concern with this technology is, how many innocent people are going to put away because of its use?

I'm certainly not trying to undermine the value that these scientific breakthroughs can have, but I think we all have to lean on the side of caution as we approach them.
Well what you say is true, something meant for good can be turned for evil purposes on just about anything. It's then up to the individual to take the chance and pursue the plight or play it safe....and yes I've thought how these data bases could be used to trace certain races/roots for racist reasons also. Wow, quite the dilemma for sure. Caution vs curiosity, we already took the plunge into our Jewish roots plus other backgrounds on Ancestry, so pray for us?, lol
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#46
I dont know a lot about adoption but it seems to me most couples or mothers give up their babies because they just cant afford to keep them, it isnt that they dont want them.

War and other circumstances mean its difficult to keep a child. When you are poor, the option for a better life for your child may not lie with you.

Because of the breakdown of families and support systems within extended families, adoption outside of the extended family is often the last resort...its out of desperation, I am sure poor young mothers find this the hardest thing theyve ever had to do and they never forgot the child they gave birth to but were unable to care for. Its not spoken about because what can you say really.
 
N

notonmywatch

Guest
#47
Now I'm halfway tempted to write a poll asking which one would be more shocking:


1. A Polar Bear Club that goes ice swimming and then makes angels in the snow,

or,

2. A Polar Bear Club consisting of people of all ages who sit around conversing, all while sporting polar bear onesies. :oops:
True story.

I just bought a pair of polar bear sleep pants.

Just a coincidence, or is it?

:unsure:
 

RodB651

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2021
458
295
63
#48
So far this Christmas season, I've managed to dodge Mariah Carey's "all I want for Christmas is you"...
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,927
8,175
113
#49
So far this Christmas season, I've managed to dodge Mariah Carey's "all I want for Christmas is you"...
You must be wearing earbuds, or earplugs, when you go to the store.
 

RodB651

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2021
458
295
63
#50
Well, I haven't been to wally world lately and I've avoided the radio stations that are playing Christmas music.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#51
funny Mariah Carey is all I play this time of year lol

I read her memoir and pretty much in a nutshell all her songs are about her dad. Her parents divorced/separated when she was two and she lived with her opera singer mother. Her dad was black and her mother was white.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#52
I think when your parents or family are estranged/separated...Christmas is one of those holidays that is the hardest because its the one day when everyone is determined to get together. Perhaps its the only day that anyone can get off work too.

I remember last year the family gathering and one cousin didnt want to be in the same room as the other cousin. She came anyway and tried to be the bigger person after mum begged her. Thankfully theres enough peeps in my extended family for it not to be all awkward. Just very noisy and loud.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#54
My cousin announced she was engaged at the christmas party and was showing off her diamond ring...!

so yea. I guess thats one way not to be single. Her boyfriend/fiance stuck with her all night at the party so she didnt have to talk with anyone if she didnt want to.

At parties I just chat to anyone whos comfortable chatting with me and sort of float around. Im not too nosy about other peoples business. I usually talk about the food.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#55
as for issues of adoption because of rape, I read one memoir where the guy was the product of rape who got adopted by his grandparents and he found out when he was a teen. He was open about it, it made for difficult adolsecent years but he was determined to NOT to be like his father.

I think the knowledge can either make you or break you. You cant change the past its how you deal with it I suppose. Better knowing than not knowing though.

I knew an adoptee who returned to search for his nz roots, found his birth mother and then realised that his adopted parents offered him everything and they were his real parents, because of the way his birth mother lived was no good for growing a child. A child wont thrive when around violence for long.

as for incest I dont know personally of anyone whos adopted for that reason but sure it happens, however, even children of incest are not thrown away, they can be redeemed as several in the Bible show (Moab, tamar's child, etc)
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#56
Probably about half the population of the entire world is unplanned or unwanted anyway. Its not that every child, even in 'happily married' families is wanted. You could be the second child or a girl and you mum or dad might not have even wanted you. So I dont think its a thing that only adoptees face.