Eschatology? When does the 1000 year Reign of Christ take place? Before or After Anti-Christ?

In Revelation 20, in the clearest terms, the Word of God tells us that Jesus Christ and His Saints will reign on this Earth for 1000 years.

Unfortunately, there are all kinds of sophisms to avoid the plain and literal meaning of this passage, and try to turn it into something else.

I have to confess I myself once believed in a "spiritual" millenium - i.e. an amillenial or non-millenial one. But further study showed it untenable.

1) For one, Satan is simply not bound up today, as it says he will be for the 1000 Year Period of Peace when Christ reigns. Satan is roaming around like a devouring lion, as Peter says.

2) For another, it's very clear to me now today, though it wasn't 12+ years ago, if you study the Book of Revelation chronologically, that this Event happens AFTER the Mark of the Beast and Anti-Christ.

Some say after Anti-Christ comes, he'll be defeated by Christ and that's the end of it. If so, when will the Jews convert? For Paul clearly says they will in Romans 11, yet Jesus said the Jews will accept Anti-Christ first. Will cite the verses if asked. Therefore, they convert after accepting him first. But when they do, great blessings come to all, as Paul says. How can that be if there's no time left? And so rather, I now believe the Millenium - or 1000 year Reign of Christ - will begin then.

3) Finally, here's the passage itself. Let's just allow it to speak for itself, where Christ and Saint John speak to us of God's Plan - and it should be noted, many of the Early Church Fathers, including those who knew St. John personally believed in an actual or literal millenium.

Revelation 20: Christ reigns for a 1000 years:

20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Will be interested to hear thoughts from others on this. I know there are various schools of thought on it, but the passage seems clear.

God Bless.

See this for e.g. on Church Father St. Justin Martyr:

"Second, Justin linked the beginning of the Millennium he expected not to Christ’s resurrection, as Papias had done, but to Christ’s “second advent.” He believed faithful Christians would rise from the dead to live with Christ in the new Jerusalem. After the Millennium had been completed, the rest of humanity would rise from the dead; then all would receive the Last Judgment. This seems to be the first post-scriptural writing that placed the Millennium after the Second Coming, thus clearly placing the present age before the Millennium. Justin appears to have been the first premillennialist."

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/historic-premillennialism

The article in the Christian History Institute link cited above is very interesting and contains some useful information of the history of Millenial Thinking in the Early Church:

"Subsequent writers followed his lead. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130-c. 200) is best known for his vigorous defense of Christianity against the Gnostics on such points as the bodily resurrection of the dead. In his book Against all Heresies, Irenaeus followed his teacher Papias, maintaining that when the faithful departed are raised, they will reign with Christ for a thousand years of bliss. Jerusalem would be rebuilt, famine would be unknown, and animals would live in harmony with each other and with man. However, like Justin and unlike Papias, Irenaeus expected this to happen after the coming of the Antichrist and the second coming of Christ.

Calming the Enthusiasts
Justin and Irenaeus spoke of the Millennium as a far-off event they hoped for someday. Its only importance to Christian living was as a reminder of the hope that should guide a Christian’s life. But late in the 100s, some Christians began to see signs that the Millennium was imminent. The most worrisome of these were the Montanists.
Probably in 172, Montanus began to proclaim that Jerusalem would soon descend near Phrygia (west-central Asia Minor). Montanus and his female associates, Prisca and Maximilla, claimed the Millennium had begun and God had given them authority over the Christian church. To reject their pronouncements, they said, was to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit: Luke 12’s “unforgivable sin.” Montanus was eventually condemned by the church, though not for his eschatology.
In the early 200s, Hippolytus of Rome predicted that Christ would establish the Millennium in 496. He was one of the few early writers to predict the date of the Second Coming, but not for reasons we’d expect. Better known for his Apostolic Tradition, which contains one of the earliest surviving texts of a prayer to consecrate the bread and cup during Communion, Hippolytus worked out this date in his ground breaking study of the book of Daniel—the earliest surviving Christian commentary on a single book of the Bible.
The question of the Second Coming was a lively one at the time. A few chapters before his date prediction, Hippolytus told of a foolish Syrian church leader who had led his people into the desert to await the Second Coming. Another leader, this time in Pontus (northern Asia Minor), had predicted that Christ would come again in a year’s time. His people trusted him as they trusted Scripture itself, and when the year ended without the Second Coming, they were devastated. Many despaired of Scripture and of their religion: “The virgins got married; the men withdrew to their farms; and those who had recklessly sold all their possessions were eventually to be found begging.”
Millennial expectations were gaining a bad name, so Hippolytus wanted to dampen expectations. He first worked out the date of Christ’s birth: 5,500 years after the world was created. He then reckoned that the Millennium would begin 6,000 years after the creation of the world, so that the world would end after 7,000 years—a commonly-held view in those days. Clearly, then, Christ would return 500 years after his birth—and nearly three centuries after Hippolytus’s book. Placing Christ’s return so far in the future probably helped Hippolytus defuse the expectations of Christians who expected to see the Millennium soon.
Another attempt to dampen millennial expectations was made by the great thinker of the third-century church, Origen (c. 185-c. 254). Origen took delight in allegory and symbolism and felt no need to interpret Daniel or Revelation literally. Yes, the “best” Christians will be princes and rulers, but they will both rule over “the souls of lower condition” and also teach them about higher things, so that they can be fashioned into a “living stone” that can take its place in the spiritual Jerusalem to come.
Origen’s allegorical approach also focused on actions performed by faithful souls, rather than on an unfolding millennial chronology. In this way, Origen could contrast the pagan submission to Fate against the Christian sense that one’s choices made a difference. An increasing number of Christian thinkers would come to prefer this approach.

The “Great Captain” Arrives
When the Great Persecution broke upon the church in 303, there was speculation that the dreaded tribulation may have arrived, with the Emperor Diocletian as the first beast of Revelation 13, and his Caesar Galerius as the second beast.
Then Constantine won the empire in battle in 312 and immediately called a halt to the persecution. He promised to restore the church’s property and offered to act as its sponsor and patron. The surviving Christians were ecstatic. “The Angel of the mighty council, the great Captain and Leader of the armies of God ... suddenly appeared,” wrote Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 260-340) referring to Constantine.
In the face of such joyous circumstances, who needed to hope for a Millennium in the indefinite future? It was easy to conclude the Millennium had indeed arrived, and that Christ’s second coming would occur at some date after the Millennium was complete—a postmillennial view."

Can you quote the verse that shows this ==Please and thank you -----

Hi SOTW:

It's John 5:43:

"I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

A commentary on Bible Hub says: "The word "come" in this clause links the meaning with that of the "come" in the previous clause, and is to be understood of a false Messianic claim in opposition to the true. Sixty-four false Christs have been enumerated as appearing after the true Christ, and these words are often taken as a prophecy of one of the most famous of these, as Bar-Kochba. Not a few of the Fathers have understood the words of Antichrist." https://biblehub.com/john/5-43.htm

My understanding is the reign of Anti-Christ will be for 3.5 years. Then Christ will come to cast him and the FP to hell.

And then Christ will reign for 1000 years. Before Anti-Christ, the Tribulation. After the AC, the Rapture and Resurrection.

God Bless.

This argument got started just after John wrote "Revelations" but after he died.

The different opinions existing is a very strong argument for denying that "Ex-Cathedra" is authoritative of God. Because the Church Fathers were all over the place with each completely contradicting each other....often angrily.

Thank you so much
Blessings to you

This is how I see this --------

Your Quote here -------when will the Jews convert?

The Jews never convert ------the Jews are God's Chosen Nation -------God saves His Chosen by honoring His Pledge with them ---read Revelation 7---the 144,000 are the Jews that go through the Tribulation are Marked by God on their foreheads to preach the Gospel throughout the world and are brought through the 7 years unscathed -----God honors His pledge to His first chosen nation ------The Jews are saved by God's love and Grace for His Chosen Nation ------


Revelation 7

New International Version



144,000 Sealed

7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.


Your Quote -----Jesus said the Jews will accept Anti-Christ first.

I say --------In John 5 we see Jesus is talking to the Jewish Leaders --------

You should read the whole part but I am going to just post this ----to show that the Jews never did believe that Jesus was the Son of God and therefore were always deceived in their hearts ----their hearts were hardened against the Message Jesus came to deliver -----

It is the Jewish Leaders that are the False Prophets and they are teaching their flock wrongly =====



So here is the scripture
John 5
Jesus Says More to the Jewish Leaders

36 “But I have a proof about myself that is greater than anything John said. The things I do are my proof. These are what my Father gave me to do. They show that the Father sent me.

37 And the Father who sent me has given proof about me himself. But you have never heard his voice. You have never seen what he looks like.

38 The Father’s teaching does not live in you, because you don’t believe in the one the Father sent.

39 You carefully study the Scriptures. You think that they give you eternal life. These same Scriptures tell about me!

40 But you refuse to come to me to have that life.

41 “I don’t want praise from you or any other human.

42 But I know you—I know that you have no love for God.

43 I have come from my Father and speak for him, but you don’t accept me. But when other people come speaking only for themselves, you accept them.

I say -----So here we see Jesus saying to the Jewish Leaders that when other people come Speaking only for themselves ---the Jewish Leaders accept them -------so this scripture is for the Jewish leaders ------who are already corrupt in their thinking -------and are teaching wrongly to other Jews -------Satan already has them --HOOK----- LINE and Sinker --------and God in the last days Honors His Pledge by Saving His Jewish Nation without them converting --------- God is a God of His Word -----


44 You like to have praise from each other. But you never try to get the praise that comes from the only God. So how can you believe?


Why did God choose the Jews to be His Chosen -------

Show me an "antichrist" in Revelation ...you can't ...because the first beast is rome.

Rome is the sixth head of the beast that was in power in johns day.

“And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The “anti christ” or false messiah in revelation , is the eighth king who rises in the end having ten horns he is one of the seven heads who seems to have died and later lives ( mocking and imitating Christ )

“And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed:

and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:3-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. ( another mocking and imitation of Christ who is sand was and is to come )

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of Lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:8, 11-14‬ ‭

there’s alot in the Bible about the figure some call the “ anti christ”

at he beast that rises in chapter 13 there is explained in chapter 17 to John it is eighteen kings in tbe earth five of which had already come and gone by the time John received his vision the sixth king was currently ruling ( Rome was ruling ) and another hadn’t yet risen

the seven heads are seven kingdoms beginning with Babylon leading to rome

then here are ten horns that were future kings and one head of the seven that appears again in the future as the eighth and he will rise up and rule the ten future kings in the end.

In other words he’s going to be a political leader of a nation that ruled before and was then fallen d rises again , who will have alliance where he rules ten other nations.

It’s just a world figure that is going to deceive a lot of people in tbe end against Christ and turn people against the gospel and Christianity that’s why the persecutions happen during his reign

How could the Millennium be "before" the reign of the Antichrist? Would that not be the height of absurdity?

This happens at the end of the Tribulation. God will deliver and redeem them by conquering their enemies. The Anti-Christ and the false prophet will be casted into the Lake of fire. This is when the Millenium shall begin.

Satan shall then be bound for 1000 years, after which he will be released, and one final rebellion shall ensue. God shall then cast Satan into the Lake with all those who are condemned at the Great White Throne Judgement. This is when the New Jerusalem shall descend down out of Heaven, and we shall forevermore be with the Lord.

It is possible the "Jews" are already converting.

Popcorn! Popcorn! My kingdom for some Popcorn 🍿

Back when you were Jewish ...did you have a High Priest, real Atonement, or a Temple? Or are you Hebrew Roots pretending to be a Jew?

The Mosaic Age Ended 2,000 years ago. There are no more authentic Jews to convert. We all were dead spirits and then were woken to The Truth. There is no difference between Jew or Gentile anymore.

Well, in the "Amillenial" (or so-called Present Millenial) perspective, he does. "Amilennialists reject the view that Jesus Christ will physically reign on the Earth for exactly one thousand years. Rather, they interpret the "thousand years" mentioned in Revelation 20 as a symbolic number, not as a literal duration of time. Amillennialists hold that the millennium has already begun and is simultaneous with the current church age. Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgment and establish a permanent reign in the "new heaven and new Earth."[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialism

So Amillenialists believe the current age is the millenium, and "1000 years" is metaphorical, and Anti-Christ comes after it.

Anyway, regarding the conversion of the Jews, let me quote Romans 11, which I mentioned. Here's what St. Paul says:

Romans 11:23-32: All Israel will be saved. After the full number of the Gentiles comes in, so will the elect of Israel:

"23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
All Israel Will Be Saved
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

The Church Fathers have said the same in their commentaries on Holy Scripture:

"As St. Benedict’s Center shows, the Apostles and fathers have prophesied the return of the Jewish people to Christ one day:

The Old Testament contains several prophecies of the end-times conversion of the Jews. The Prophet [Hosea] says this: “The children of Israel shall sit many days without king and without prince and without sacrifice, and without altar, and without ephod and without theraphim. And after this the children of Israel shall return, and shall seek the Lord their God and David their king: and they shall fear the Lord, and His goodness in the last days” (Hosea 3:4-5). There are two parts to this prophesy. The first is that the Jews will be without king, prince, sacrifice, altar, ephod, and theraphim. This is a reference to the loss of civil kingship and sacrificing priesthood among the Jews. Regarding this part of the prophecy, Saint Augustine comments, “Who is there who does not see in this a portrait of the present state of the Jewish people?” The second part of the prophecy involves the return of the Jews, about which, Saint Augustine says this: “Nothing can be clearer than this prophecy, in which David stands for Jesus Christ [since He], says the Apostle, is born of the line of David, according to the flesh” (cited in The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jewish Nation, by Father Denis Fahey, pgs. 101-2) … Saint Cyril of Alexandria says this: “Towards the end of time, Our Lord Jesus Christ will effect the reconciliation of His former persecutor Israel with Himself. Everybody who knows Holy Scripture is aware that, in the course of time, this people will return to the love of Christ by the submission of faith[.] … Yes, one day, after the conversion of the Gentiles, Israel will be converted, and the Jews will be astonished at the Treasure they will find in Christ." (Commentary on Genesis, Bk. 5)" https://onepeterfive.com/messianic-prophecies-evangelization/

We both know that this is pure nonsense. How can there be a Millennium when sin and evil is increasing day by day?

k, so how can there be a physical JESUS here as satan is loosed to deceive again? hint: it's your church that ends for a thousand years.

Yes, I agree the Current Age is not the Millenium. That is an untenable theory.

Some of the Church Fathers were PreMillenialists, but considered it an open question about which Christians could disagree.

As the ChristianHistoryInstitute link says:

"Justin Martyr (c.100-c.165) shared Papias’s millennial expectation. In his Dialogue with Trypho [a Jewish non-believer], Justin affirmed his expectation that the faithful departed would rise from the dead and reign with Christ for a thousand years in a rebuilt Jerusalem. Still, he differed from Papias in two interesting ways.
First, Justin said openly that not all Christians shared his expectation: “I and many others are of this opinion, and believe that such will take place ... but, on the other hand, many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” Such tolerance was not given for other doctrines, such as the resurrection of the dead. “Some who are called Christians ... say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians” Second, Justin linked the beginning of the Millennium he expected not to Christ’s resurrection, as Papias had done, but to Christ’s “second advent.” He believed faithful Christians would rise from the dead to live with Christ in the new Jerusalem. After the Millennium had been completed, the rest of humanity would rise from the dead; then all would receive the Last Judgment. This seems to be the first post-scriptural writing that placed the Millennium after the Second Coming, thus clearly placing the present age before the Millennium. Justin appears to have been the first premillennialist.

Subsequent writers followed his lead. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130-c. 200) is best known for his vigorous defense of Christianity against the Gnostics on such points as the bodily resurrection of the dead. In his book Against all Heresies, Irenaeus followed his teacher Papias, maintaining that when the faithful departed are raised, they will reign with Christ for a thousand years of bliss. Jerusalem would be rebuilt, famine would be unknown, and animals would live in harmony with each other and with man. However, like Justin and unlike Papias, Irenaeus expected this to happen after the coming of the Antichrist and the second coming of Christ."

After