Socalism & Christianity, a perfect match or a complete clash of ideologies?

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PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#41
Apr 22, 2013
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#41
Jaxy said:
I, myself, am a socalist and have been for many many years and firmly believe that a more socalist society would be better then the current one. Since I have started to study the Bible, I personally believe the Bible renforces my ideas of socalism as it talks about caring for one another, loving one another and helping out those who are less fourtante.

I was just wondering what other Christians would think of this paring?
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Depends on how you define "socialism".

True socialism can never work because human beings are corrupt and corruptible.

There have been only TWO forces that have tamed human corruption.

1. A belief in, and an understanding that people will be held accountable for their actions to a higher Being.

2. Competition. Without competition there is no incentive to innovate, and work harder to better yourself, so as to be more valuable to a company or society. That's why unions are so bad. Everyone need only work as hard as the laziest guy, because why work harder if you are all getting paid the same?

True socialism is anathema to both those forces.

Yes, I know we have some socialism in our society. Such as our taxes going to fund the military and infrastructure. But those things are not what true socialism is, and what most think it is. They think, "why can't everyone have the same stuff". Ya know, like how the evil originator defines it:
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Runningman

Banned
#42
Mar 4, 2020
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#42
Cameron143 said:
It's a fallacy that capitalism increases prices. Capitalism causes an abundance which reduces prices. And if socialism brought about gratitude, why aren't people on welfare thanking me all day.
Again, the idealism of socialism is appealing. It's reality never exists.
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It's not a fallacy. I've been to a socialist country and I have been in the USA so I know there is a big difference. Let me put it this way by using just one example. When I had a cell phone plan in the USA I was paying something like $90 per month just to make phone calls with a data limit. While I was in a socialist country, my cell phone plan for unlimited data, talking, and texting was something ridiculous like $35 for an entire year. In almost every sector, Americans are being grossly taken advantage of, paying much higher premiums for things that are sold around the world for dirt cheap. That's capitalism. You gotta take a step back and look at it from a different perspective.
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#43
Sep 14, 2020
36,421
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#43
Runningman said:
It's not a fallacy. I've been to a socialist country and I have been in the USA so I know there is a big difference. Let me put it this way by using just one example. When I had a cell phone plan in the USA I was paying something like $90 per month just to make phone calls with a data limit. While I was in a socialist country, my cell phone plan for unlimited data, talking, and texting was something ridiculous like $35 for an entire year. In almost every sector, Americans are being grossly taken advantage of, paying much higher premiums for things that are sold around the world for dirt cheap. That's capitalism. You gotta take a step back and look at it from a different perspective.
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In my own experience I had to use the hospital in England and the hospital in Taiwan. I found both of them far superior to American hospitals.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#44
Mar 1, 2022
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#44
Runningman said:
It's not a fallacy. I've been to a socialist country and I have been in the USA so I know there is a big difference. Let me put it this way by using just one example. When I had a cell phone plan in the USA I was paying something like $90 per month just to make phone calls with a data limit. While I was in a socialist country, my cell phone plan for unlimited data, talking, and texting was something ridiculous like $35 for an entire year. In almost every sector, Americans are being grossly taken advantage of, paying much higher premiums for things that are sold around the world for dirt cheap. That's capitalism. You gotta take a step back and look at it from a different perspective.
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You can find a number of examples like that. The same is true of drug prices, for instance. But the reason isn't because capitalism has failed but succeeded. It is out of America's abundance that it has subsidized so many things around the world.
Capitalism has produced the wealth to produce so much of the technology we in the world today. Tell me all the inventions and innovative that socialism has produced.
The problem with developing a world view from a few life experiences without broadening your perspective is dangerous. How many people are flooding across the Russian and Chinese borders. Poor people don't think socialism is so great.
 
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arthurfleminger

Well-known member
#45
Aug 18, 2021
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#45
The problem with socialism is that the government controls everything. Citizens become property of the state. When you cede all the power to the state, in order to live off the govt plantation, you have enslaved yourselves. Once you give up your freedoms to big govt, they are impossible to get back.

And you'd best toe the government agenda with a 'yes massah and no massah' otherwise you'll be liable to their punishment.

Seriously, who has confindence that govt can run our lives?
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#46
Sep 14, 2020
36,421
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#46
arthurfleminger said:
The problem with socialism is that the government controls everything. Citizens become property of the state. When you cede all the power to the state, in order to live off the govt plantation, you have enslaved yourselves. Once you give up your freedoms to big govt, they are impossible to get back.
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Yep, 10% socialism is great, 100% socialism is horrible.
 
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arthurfleminger

Well-known member
#47
Aug 18, 2021
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#47
All countries that have tried socialism, Venezuela, Russia, China, Cuba, etal....., were successful in one thing. They made everyone equal, 'EQUALLY POOR' and dependent, looking to migrate to the USA.

Not everyone turned out equally poor though, government officials and their families, like Noriega of Nicuaragua, became billionaires while leading their countries into abject poverty. Imagine that.
 
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HopeinHim4ever

Guest
#48
#48
persistent said:
Very good. I did see a video of Hutterites in Canada, maybe Alberta, and they were as you point out very 'communal' in their lifestyle. While they lived comfortably in what appeared to be single or possibly duplex type homes, they had a community dining facility and each person was given a very small allowance each month, maybe $20 in today's money.

The social structure of Amish and Mennonite do seem in some communities to be close to average Americans but some are more community minded than average Americans. At least from my point of view as a southside Chicago born and raised individual. Jaxy, who posted this is getting a bit off track maybe and just trying to let Jaxy know that Christians are of many varieties.


And thanks for posting at witness of the Holy Spirit and why did I become a Christian? In case you didn't see Siddhikoli's post of being disabled with cerebral palsy now you know and I once was somewhat close with a person with that condition and know how tough they have it and nice to see you post there.
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I get what you're saying.

Yes my heart goes out to her too. She's so sweet.
 
JohnDB

JohnDB

Well-known member
#49
Jan 16, 2021
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#49
Christian socialism has been tried many times and failed many times. America started as a socialistic society...but because of the laziness and failure none of the efficiencies were anywhere close to being realized.

Besides....the Scriptures do NOT promote or endorse socialism or anything like that.

Scriptures promote Monarchy and caste systems. The King is in charge...the "Lords and Dukes" or Govenors are then in charge of the common people...

The King and Governors do NOT just give handouts to anyone. The most you could expect was to get a meal from the King's table or the Governor's table....but dont expect to be a regular. Bedrooms are in the dungeons.
 
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persistent

Guest
#50
#50
HopeinHim4ever said:
Yes my heart goes out to her too. She's so sweet
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Also, she is very depressed and takes meds for that which likely make her drowsy. I'm just guessing since I have never known anyone taking antidepressants. She says she is not at all angry about her condition but seems that she is just waiting to die. How terrible? Makes me cry thinking how tough it must be. I used to know a guy years ago with that condition but lost contact with him after just a couple years and have no idea what life expectancy for someone like that is?
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#51
Sep 17, 2016
8,846
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#51
Jaxy said:
I, myself, am a socalist and have been for many many years and firmly believe that a more socalist society would be better then the current one. Since I have started to study the Bible, I personally believe the Bible renforces my ideas of socalism as it talks about caring for one another, loving one another and helping out those who are less fourtante.

I was just wondering what other Christians would think of this paring?
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As with anything it is good to define what we mean by socialism. Are we talking about an ecopolitical theory or a societal theory? Are we talking about forced or volunteer socialism? Are we speaking in strict theory or historical data? I only ask because in theory it sounds nice but in reality society boomed under the theory of Capitalism.
 
Jaxy

Jaxy

Member
#52
Dec 29, 2022
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#52
I mean socialist ideals....taxing the richer, universal healthcare, ect
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#53
Apr 21, 2021
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#53
Jaxy said:
I mean socialist ideals....taxing the richer, universal healthcare, ect
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Your profile says you're in the UK. Is that right? I'm curious, what has been your experience with the NHS? A lot of people in the US say bad things about socialized medicine. But what has your experience been like?
 
Jaxy

Jaxy

Member
#54
Dec 29, 2022
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#54
Theyre litreally saving my life as I speak....if the NHS didnt exist, the treatment I need would most likely cost thousands, tens of thousands or even possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds....yes the waiting lists are long, but these issues have only occured after the convservative goverment decreased funding
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#55
Apr 22, 2013
13,576
9,093
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#55
Jaxy said:
I mean socialist ideals....taxing the richer, universal healthcare, ect
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Before even talking about earthly socialism, you should trust the Universal solution to our universal sin debt:
THE Gospel unto Salvation:
God wrapped Himself in human flesh in the form of His Son, Jesus the Messiah. Conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin. He suffered, was crucified, and died to pay OUR sin debt. He was raised to life from the grave to prove He had defeated death. If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that His Father resurrected Him to Life on the 3rd day, you WILL be saved. You will be filled, and sealed with the Holy Spirit, who will empower ALL to turn from their sins. The sin of adultery, lying, stealing, homosexuality, gossip, slander, drunkenness, covetousness, etc... And most importantly the sin of DEAD works, or a moral life in an attempt to EARN Salvation. He will also equip you to love like He did and do good works for HIS Glory.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#56
Apr 21, 2021
8,260
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#56
Jaxy said:
Theyre litreally saving my life as I speak....if the NHS didnt exist, the treatment I need would most likely cost thousands, tens of thousands or even possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds....yes the waiting lists are long, but these issues have only occured after the convservative goverment decreased funding
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Something needs to be done about healthcare in the US big time. Sure, we have some of the best doctors and hospitals in the world, but if you can't afford them what good are they? I don't know the answer but I pray something will change.
 
JTB

JTB

Well-known member
#58
Aug 31, 2021
2,251
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#58
Jaxy said:
I, myself, am a socalist and have been for many many years and firmly believe that a more socalist society would be better then the current one. Since I have started to study the Bible, I personally believe the Bible renforces my ideas of socalism as it talks about caring for one another, loving one another and helping out those who are less fourtante.

I was just wondering what other Christians would think of this paring?
Click to expand...
While I believe Jesus was a-political, his teachings were definitely socialist-leaning.

Not like the false prophet horde of republicans that claim His name these days.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#59
#59
Cameron143 said:
It's a fallacy that capitalism increases prices. Capitalism causes an abundance which reduces prices. And if socialism brought about gratitude, why aren't people on welfare thanking me all day.
Again, the idealism of socialism is appealing. It's reality never exists.
Click to expand...


Winston Churchill said, There are only two places where socialism works,Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.”
 
Jaxy

Jaxy

Member
#60
Dec 29, 2022
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#60
Socalism of the USSR and modern democractic socalism are different though...if we judge everybody by a historical stroke of a brush, all Catholics aredently hate Protestants and want to kill them all of
 
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