Do you observe the Sabbath?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 29, 2022
59
38
18
Hebrews 4:1-13 does not mention Jesus, the Son of God, or say that Jesus is our sabbath rest. It actually refers to the Sabbath that should be entered into as a literal calendar day.
But who does the rest come from? I think that sabbath day is the eternal rest that we experience now and then fully at the end of 7th thousandth year. Thats How I see it.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,678
113
It is actually required as per the 4th commandment, but since Christ has authority over the Sabbath and resurrected on Sunday, we interpreted that he prefers us to keep it on Sunday.
If that's what the church is teaching it doesn't make sense.

Look at it like this using this example and see if it logically follows:

I am the master over my house and I decided we will have mandatory family game night every Saturday. I needed to take a trip out of town Friday afternoon, I was gone all of Saturday, and I returned Sunday. While I was gone, family game night went on as usual on Saturday per my mandate. After I returned on Sunday, I said nothing about the day of family game night changing.

If my family changed family game night to Sunday while I was gone, do you think I would be utterly baffled as to where they got the authority to do so?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,678
113
You know what I noticed is twice in Colossians 2 it speaks of the

You know what I noticed is that twice in Colossians 2 it refers to commandments/traditions/doctrines of MEN. (Verses 8 and 22) Which leads me to believe that's the context of what we aren't to allow others to judge us by.
That's a pretty good observation. Thanks for pointing that out. I totally didn't make that connection. I love how much information is packed into so few words in the Bible.
 
H

HopeinHim4ever

Guest
That's a pretty good observation. Thanks for pointing that out. I totally didn't make that connection. I love how much information is packed into so few words in the Bible.
Amen.
 
Nov 17, 2022
72
30
18
If that's what the church is teaching it doesn't make sense.

Look at it like this using this example and see if it logically follows:

I am the master over my house and I decided we will have mandatory family game night every Saturday. I needed to take a trip out of town Friday afternoon, I was gone all of Saturday, and I returned Sunday. While I was gone, family game night went on as usual on Saturday per my mandate. After I returned on Sunday, I said nothing about the day of family game night changing.

If my family changed family game night to Sunday while I was gone, do you think I would be utterly baffled as to where they got the authority to do so?
Christ is always with us, regardless of if physically or spiritually. So not comparable.

Christ is the fulfillment of the OT, and the center of our salvation. The Saturday Sabbath, just like the Mosaic Law was not there as a permanent rule. They both pointed to Christ, the only man who would fulfill them entirely. Since Christ defeated death and resurrected on Sunday, fulfilling the promise long given to our forefathers, we celebrate the day of his Resurrection, because it has been by far the greatest and most miraculous event ever seen in the history of Israel, overriding the Saturday.

Sunday symbolizes Christ, because it is the first and the eighth day of the week, thus the Beginning and the End of the week. Makes sense. Continuing to celebrate the Saturday as the Jews do is basically acting as if Christ never resurrected.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,960
1,388
113
Midwest
I think if we are convinced to keep the 7thday sabbath. Go for it! But let us not judge one another because some keep Sunday and then some keep everyday alike. Romans 14.
Precious friend, a Very Warm Welcome to Chat.

And, thank you so much for your Scriptural agreement about
our 'liberty and freedom' In Christ to be "FULLY persuaded
(in my own mind" = resting 24/7), and 'not judging' others
(Rom 14; Col 2:16-17).

Very refreshing and Encouraging!!
-----------------------------------
Precious friend:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,567
1,066
113
Australia
Christ is always with us, regardless of if physically or spiritually. So not comparable.

Christ is the fulfillment of the OT, and the center of our salvation. The Saturday Sabbath, just like the Mosaic Law was not there as a permanent rule. They both pointed to Christ, the only man who would fulfill them entirely. Since Christ defeated death and resurrected on Sunday, fulfilling the promise long given to our forefathers, we celebrate the day of his Resurrection, because it has been by far the greatest and most miraculous event ever seen in the history of Israel, overriding the Saturday.

Sunday symbolizes Christ, because it is the first and the eighth day of the week, thus the Beginning and the End of the week. Makes sense. Continuing to celebrate the Saturday as the Jews do is basically acting as if Christ never resurrected.
But does God want us to do it our way.
Sunday keeping is a man made tradition.
How do you know if it is Gods will?
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

It is disrespectful towards God to say "we are doing it our way God," who cares what God wants.

There is no verse stating that we follow the tradition of Sunday keeping.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,567
1,066
113
Australia
In A Doctrinal Catechism,
A question asked to the RC Church
Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
- Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,678
113
Christ is always with us, regardless of if physically or spiritually. So not comparable.

Christ is the fulfillment of the OT, and the center of our salvation. The Saturday Sabbath, just like the Mosaic Law was not there as a permanent rule. They both pointed to Christ, the only man who would fulfill them entirely. Since Christ defeated death and resurrected on Sunday, fulfilling the promise long given to our forefathers, we celebrate the day of his Resurrection, because it has been by far the greatest and most miraculous event ever seen in the history of Israel, overriding the Saturday.

Sunday symbolizes Christ, because it is the first and the eighth day of the week, thus the Beginning and the End of the week. Makes sense. Continuing to celebrate the Saturday as the Jews do is basically acting as if Christ never resurrected.
Christ didn’t rest on the first day of the week though. He observed the seventh day of the week while alive and he rested in the grave on the seventh day of the week while dead.

What the church has been following is called a false equivalency logical fallacy.

Here’s an example I pulled from the Internet:
“If apples and oranges are both fruits, and there are seeds in both apples and oranges, then since they both contain seeds, apples and oranges are equal.”

Then the church followed it like this:
If the Sabbath is the day of restful honoring of God and Jesus was raised in glory on the first day of the week then the seventh and the first day of the week are equal. Therefore we can change the Sabbath because it doesn’t make a difference.

The invalid conclusion is that just because the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day are alike in some respects then they must be alike in other respects.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,732
6,319
113
In A Doctrinal Catechism,
A question asked to the RC Church
Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
- Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.
except gentiles were never commanded to keep it.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,327
714
113
I don't agree that what Jesus was saying they would take flight from has happened in the past. He was referring to a yet-to-happen future event that involves praying it doesn't happen on the Sabbath, something that people like you and I may be alive to witness and experience, because Sabbath observance isn't voided by environmental factors around us.

This is evident in the next verse:

Matthew 44
21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

So probably the greatest distress that has happened up until the point Jesus said those words was the great flood in the days of Noah. A worldwide calamity of such magnitude has not happened since then up until the present day. Jesus is speaking of something more distressing than the flood.
What questions did the apostles ask Jesus, that triggered Jesus explaining the events to follow?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,327
714
113
Christ is Lord of the Sabbath. Since his Resurrection was on Sunday, Christians celebrate Sunday as Lord's Day since then, as a way of following the 4th commandment while taking into account Christ's authority and Resurrection.

The Mosaic Law was abolished but not the 10 commandments. By the way most of the commandments are something any rational human being should submit to, not just a Christian. We should not kill, steal, cheat etc. I don't see why so many people want to abolish them, maybe because they want the death penalty?

It is actually required as per the 4th commandment, but since Christ has authority over the Sabbath and resurrected on Sunday, we interpreted that he prefers us to keep it on Sunday.
The death penalty was prescribed by God in the Old Testament, for transgression of the law.

Sin is also transgression of the law.

The good you know you should be doing but don't do it, is also sin.

Anything that is not of faith is sin.

Rejection of Jesus is a fatal sin.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a fatal sin.

Not forgiving others means God will not forgive you.

I am not sure that the ten commandments, is a sure fire way, of identifying sin.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,327
714
113
Hebrews 4
9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
The big question is of course, was the sabbath commandment fulfilled. Meaning that the sabbath commandment is an eternal rest, not a day of rest.

The Old Testament is packed with shadow laws and events.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,327
714
113
W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law. Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458

Hebrews 4:10 says the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. That person has entered in God’s rest through Jesus "rests from his own work" (in contrast with law keeping) as God ceased or rested from His works in the seventh day of Creation. God's ultimate, true rest did not come through Joshua or Moses, but through Jesus Christ. Joshua led Israel into the promised land, which was merely the earthly rest which was but a shadow of what was involved in the heavenly rest. Although for centuries the Israelites had found their physical rest in a day, the new covenant takes the focus off the shadow and reveals the spiritual substance -- the fulfillment/reality—in the person of Jesus Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)
Once again, you nailed that one.

For some mysterious reason, people don't notice that the law is in the Old Testament, and Jesus is in the New Testament.

The law is the Old Covenant and Jesus established a New Covenant.

Old Testament (Old Covenant) and New Testament (New Covenant).

Old Testament (The Shadow) and New Testament (The Light).
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,327
714
113
Just curious so, if I may, I'll ask you some questions. Anyone is free to answer them.

Do you agree that the Bible never says the Sabbath has been abolished, changed, or replaced? Do you agree with keeping God's 10 commandments? If you suddenly learned that Sabbath keeping is required, would that be a burden to you?
I see the sabbath day as a yoke of slavery.

In my society, there is not a national sabbath day rest like there was in Israel.

Which makes sabbath compliance impossible in my country.

I have never found in any country but Israel, a national sabbath day rest.

Paul tells us we are not under the law. I always read that phrase 'the law' exactly the same way through the New Testament.

I never interpret the text.

Hence, since I am not under the law, I refuse to honor the sabbath.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,327
714
113
which law? Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


Not in this world Jesus is the High Priest in Heaven.
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
The same with offerings, sacrifices, feast days, and temple laws = They were fulfilled in Christ.
Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.


Why?
If God said it is healthy to wash your hands so germs don't spread, does time make that health principle not applicable?
If God said drinking the blood of animals is unhealthy, do the health principles change because of time?
1Co 1:20 .....hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
If only we listened to Gods wisdom which doesn't change over time.


Why did Jesus need to fulfill the Moral Law?
If the health laws still apply and they are 'ordinances'.

Then you must be under the entire law.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,678
113
The big question is of course, was the sabbath commandment fulfilled. Meaning that the sabbath commandment is an eternal rest, not a day of rest.

The Old Testament is packed with shadow laws and events.
Hebrews 4 refers to the Sabbath as a day rest that falls on the calendar. It occurs every seven days.

Hebrews 4
1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,678
113
I see the sabbath day as a yoke of slavery.

In my society, there is not a national sabbath day rest like there was in Israel.

Which makes sabbath compliance impossible in my country.

I have never found in any country but Israel, a national sabbath day rest.

Paul tells us we are not under the law. I always read that phrase 'the law' exactly the same way through the New Testament.

I never interpret the text.
No one in your country gets 1 day off a week to take a 24 hour Sabbath rest? I mean, that sounds like a yoke of slavery to me.

The Sabbath is supposed be a day of rest where people honor God, you know, something human bodies require and something Christians are supposed to be doing anyway.

Hence, since I am not under the law, I refuse to honor the sabbath.
You're under the 10 Commandments if you're a Christian and it's one of the standards you'll be judged by:

Matthew 5
17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

James 2
8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,678
113
What questions did the apostles ask Jesus, that triggered Jesus explaining the events to follow?
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”