Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

There are three legs upon which OSAS stands or falls. Do these verses mean what they supposedly mean, or have they been misunderstood and misapplied? When we examine them next to other scriptures that clearly contradict them will they hold up? Let's see.

First, 1 John 2:19—"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

The OSAS interpretation of this verse says that those who "went out" were never in Christ to begin with; they were never saved. However, I suggest there's another meaning that conforms very well with other scriptures. This view says that those who "went out" were indeed saved and in Christ at one point, but were simply not as committed as the others. It's in this sense that they were not "of us." These are those spoken of in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:5-6): "Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away." It sprang up, it had life to start with; but it "withered away."

Jesus' explanation of this passage is found in Matthew 13:20-21—"As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away."

Second is 1 John 3:6—"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

This seems pretty cut and dried: if someone turns away back into sin they never knew Him. But we have to understand this in light of other scriptures that contradict it. Those who "never knew Him," never had a proper understanding of Him. This corresponds to the first group in the parable of the sower: "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart." The seed was "sown in his heart," but was snatched away because of this person's lack of understanding.

Third is John 10:28—"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." I agree with this verse: no one can indeed snatch them out of His hand. However, the person himself can walk away. For this reason I prefer the phrase "forfeit salvation" to "lose salvation."

Now let's look at some scriptures that plainly talk about walking away and falling away. I'm not going to use Hebrews because Hebrews is fiercely objected to by those who advocate OSAS, even though is has many relevant warnings about falling away. But Hebrews isn't necessary—there are plenty of others.

2 Peter 2:20-21—"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

This passage clearly illustrates a person who was once in Christ but who turned their back on Him. This shows a conscious action on the part of the one turning back. These verses correspond with Luke 9:26: "Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Matthew 24:10—"And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another."

1 Timothy 4:1—"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."

Matthew 24:13—"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Why say that those who endure to the end will be saved? If one cannot forfeit their salvation, why didn't He say "But all who have prayed the sinners prayer will be saved?"

Luke 9:26—"Jesus said to him, 'No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.' "

Already mentioned, Luke 9:26 is a clear warning from the Lord about falling away.

Your standard of judgement seems to be that telling lies doesn't count as lying...

This is untenable, on your part.


Your argument that Judas is proof genuine salvation can be lost simply does not hold any water at all. End of story. I'm not in this thread to defend false characterizations of salvation, but to correct your bad argumentation.

I suggest you work on getting a better position, one which honors Christ, instead of repeating debunked assertions.

let he who has no sin cast the first stone.

We can not judge another persons salvation without judging our own.

The question should be asked, if he was saved at all if there is a question at all. John said whoever sins has never met God. if this person is living in sin and continually sins with no remorse and no chastening of God (which believe me, he would feel it) then was he ever saved to begin with

however to use this argument to reject eternal security, is just a straw man.. Do you trust God to save and complete the work he started as Paul said he WILL (not might) do

or are you relying on your own righteousness.. and ability to not fall into sin?

Your standard of judgement seems to be that telling lies doesn't count as lying...

This is untenable, on your part.


Your argument that Judas is proof genuine salvation can be lost simply does not hold any water at all. End of story. I'm not in this thread to defend false characterizations of salvation, but to correct your bad argumentation.

I suggest you work on getting a better position, one which honors Christ, instead of repeating debunked assertions.

Eternal life is not temporal.

The Bible teaches that you can turn away from the truth. No one can take away your salvation, no one can take you from God's hand, but you can walk away.

Luke 9:62
“Jesus replied, ‘No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.’”

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Abandon means they had faith, they were saved and left the faith.

“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will TURN AWAY from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Matthew 24:9-13

Many will turn away from the truth, many. So they had the truth and turned back. He who stands firm, who does not turn back from the faith.


“Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation– IF indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.”
Colossians 1:21-23



“…But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in His kindness. Otherwise, you also will be CUT OFF.”
Romans 11:20-22

“See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that TURNS AWAY from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Hebrews 3:12-14

Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. IF a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is THROWN AWAY and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into THE FIRE and burned.”
John 15:1-6

I don't see how anyone could argue OSAS after reading these verses. And there are more. The Bible clearly doesn't teach OSAS.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Abandon means they had faith, they were saved and left the faith.

that faith can’t be abandoned

You’re still commenting and haven’t provided proof that either corrects what I said or expands on it. Let me tell you something about Christianity, it doesn’t really matter what you say. I mean, thanks for sharing your opinion, but regardless of whatever it says, it doesn’t undo the authoritative words of Jesus.

I do not get it

eternal life.. if it is conditional. it is not eternal. it would be called conditional life.

why is it so hard for them?

That’s not exactly it.

Eternal life is never ending and not conditional.

The thing is getting the eternal life, that part is conditional.

Paul and the other prophets said perseverance and waiting is required. Jesus said those who are counted worthy will have it in the age to come.

See my post above this one.



"THE faith" is "THAT BODY OF TRUTH" (we find in our NT--following Christ's death and resurrection).



It is NOT referencing one's personal "faith / belief / trust" in Christ.

And is it not the case that His followers didn't receive the Holy Spirit until AFTER His crucifixion and resurrection?

["eternal life"] It has a starting point.

Please Father, don't let any non-Christian , looking for the truth of the good news gospel believe that falsehood.

It's a lie!

Read the gospel those who may be here looking for answers. Whatever you do, don't accept Runningman's ideas as that.

They're false to the core.

what do you say about this verse below?

1 Corinthians 15
2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

As I've put in past posts, to "believe in vain" means to LEAVE OFF the vital aspect of "His Resurrection"... as explained further down in the context.

"this gospel" MUST INCLUDE His "resurrection" (this is "the word *I* / PAUL preached unto you"... that which he "received" to preach, vv.3-4)--but some were saying there is no resurrection of the dead.

If Christ was not "resurrected" (as some were saying: there IS no "resurrection" from the dead), then their "faith" (belief) is IN VAIN... they are still in their sins.



But, the fact is, He DID rise out-from the dead... and numerous ppl were witness to this fact, coz they saw Him and interacted with Him after He had risen from the dead (... and even Paul, when Jesus Himself had spoken to him from His position IN HEAVEN / after His ascension/exaltation, Acts 9).

That’s not exactly it.

Eternal life is never ending and not conditional.

The thing is getting the eternal life, that part is conditional.

Paul and the other prophets said perseverance and waiting is required. Jesus said those who are counted worthy will have it in the age to come.

... which, in a different post, you've said is: once we're glorified (basically) we are given eternal life (i.e. not NOW).



"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer."

How can this be said ^ ... if, according to you, "eternal life" doesn't presently reside in ANYONE, EVEN BELIEVERS / SAINTS / THE CHURCH WHICH IS HIS BODY... ??

The Bible teaches that you can turn away from the truth. No one can take away your salvation, no one can take you from God's hand, but you can walk away.

Luke 9:62
“Jesus replied, ‘No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.’”

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Abandon means they had faith, they were saved and left the faith.

“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will TURN AWAY from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”
Matthew 24:9-13

Many will turn away from the truth, many. So they had the truth and turned back. He who stands firm, who does not turn back from the faith.


“Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation– IF indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.”
Colossians 1:21-23



“…But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in His kindness. Otherwise, you also will be CUT OFF.”
Romans 11:20-22

“See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that TURNS AWAY from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Hebrews 3:12-14

Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. IF a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is THROWN AWAY and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into THE FIRE and burned.”
John 15:1-6

I don't see how anyone could argue OSAS after reading these verses. And there are more. The Bible clearly doesn't teach OSAS.