Why does God exists
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Here are some things to think about.
1.) This is not a Christian problem. Christians and non-Christians must account for the same dilemma:
First of all, if we are going to talk about WHY is there something rather than nothing, and WHY is there anything here at all... that is not merely a problem for the theist. Both atheists and theist have to answer this same question. Christians and non-christians both face the same philosophical dilemma... so it all comes down to a matter of who has a better explanation.
2.) The dilemma and past cosmology.
In times past, people thought the universe was eternal. They believed "stuff", or "matter", had just always existed, and always been here. At no time did the atheist ever posit an explanation for WHY the matter was here to begin with... they just said "it's always been", and that was that. No further explanation given or required.
Now, it was reasonable to assume that SOMETHING had always existed, because of the philosophical proposition EX NIHILO NIHIL FIT.
This means "out of nothing, nothing comes."
This is the Latin philosophical expression for a thesis first attributed to Parmenides, in one of Plato's works, in the 5th century BC.
This understand that "nothing comes from nothing", is philosophically sound, scientifically sound, and also aligns with our common experience in life.
As some theologians have put it:
"If there was ever a time when there was nothing, there would be nothing still."
To clarify: theologians never thought the "universe" was eternal, but they did think that "something" was eternal, and that something was God. They didn't just believe God WAS eternal, but that he MUST BE eternal... because something had to exist eternally, or there would be no explanation for how anything ever came to be. "Out of nothing, nothing comes."
Something cannot come from nothing.
So if there is something here now, then something, something of some kind, had to be eternal... or nothing could be here now.
So in past cosmology, everyone believed in the eternal.
Atheists believed the universe was eternal.
Theists believed God was eternal, and he created the universe.
Since there is "stuff" here now, and it cannot come from nothing... then SOMETHING had to be eternal.
3.) The dilemma and modern cosmology.
So atheists thought the universe was eternal... and then one day that all changed.
Edwin Hubbel discovered the red shift, and in 1929 reported that the red shift was proof that the universe was NOT eternal. The universe had a beginning. Then other discoveries were made which corroborated this conclusion about the universe having a beginning. Now, it is widely accepted, and science does indeed seem to show, that the universe was not eternal, but had a beginning. This beginning is referred to as the Big Bang.
The universe (comprising ALL matter, space, and even time) was not eternal. And for some inextricable reason, at some point, it simply came into being.
The theist has no problem with this, because all of these discoveries fit perfectly with his beliefs.
But the atheist is in a terribly quandry... he's left trying to explain why "something" suddenly popped out of "nothing."
This has led to endless debates, and even terrible philosophy books written by famous physicists who don't know anything about philosophy. (Cough cough, Stephen Hawking.)
4.) The dilemma, as reconciled in Christianity.
A.) The atheist has no explanation for any of this, other than "something popped out of nothing"... which is impossible in both physics and philosophy. It simply cannot happen.
(Physicists will sometimes claim it is possible in physics, but then they go on to equivocate on terms, and essentially state a different case altogether. Essentially, they have no explanation, so they come up with a fake explanation they try to pass off by changing definitions of words. It's what very smart people often do when they can't win an argument... they begin to lie, and cheat by changing the argument to something else.)
B.) The Christian, however, has a very sound and coherent explanation.
There IS something eternal, which is God. And this eternal being created the universe, which we know is NOT eternal.
This is all logically coherent.
Keep in mind, that for centuries, if not millennia, atheists thought the universe was simply eternal... they NEVER HAD ANY ISSUE WITH SAYING SOMETHING WAS ETERNAL.
They didn't need to explain it, they didn't need to figure it out... they were fine just saying the universe was eternal.
They had no issue with the concept of something being eternal.
They only have an issue with the concept of "eternality" if the eternal thing is God... an eternal thing which they dislike.
CONCLUSION:
A.) There is nothing illogical about claiming something is eternal. Atheists, until recently, never had any philosophical problem believing in the eternal.
B.) Many atheists STILL believe in the eternal. Many believe certain abstract objects are eternal... things like math, moral virtues, or natural laws.
C.) So atheists have NEVER had a dilemma believing in the concept of the eternal, and many still do believe in the concept of the eternal (many physicists claim laws of physics, like gravity, are transcendent and eternal)... so atheists clearly have no problem believing in the concept of the eternal.
D.) Something MUST BE ETERNAL, or there would be nothing here now. From nothing, nothing comes. If atheists believe in the eternal, and require of themselves no explanation of how anything eternal came to be... then Christians certainly have no burden or liability to explain the eternal either.
E.) We have no explanation for how God came to be, except that he did not. He did not "come to be", he has just "always been." If it's any comfort, consider these 3 final points:
1 - atheists have no issue with the concept of eternality when it comes to the particular things they believe in.
2- something, something of some kind, MUST be eternal... as eternality is an absolute necessity of logic, philosophy, and physics... if SOMETHING was not eternal, then nothing would be here now.
3 - God truly is the best logical explanation for how all things came to be... but that is a different set of arguments.
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1.) This is not a Christian problem. Christians and non-Christians must account for the same dilemma:
First of all, if we are going to talk about WHY is there something rather than nothing, and WHY is there anything here at all... that is not merely a problem for the theist. Both atheists and theist have to answer this same question. Christians and non-christians both face the same philosophical dilemma... so it all comes down to a matter of who has a better explanation.
2.) The dilemma and past cosmology.
In times past, people thought the universe was eternal. They believed "stuff", or "matter", had just always existed, and always been here. At no time did the atheist ever posit an explanation for WHY the matter was here to begin with... they just said "it's always been", and that was that. No further explanation given or required.
Now, it was reasonable to assume that SOMETHING had always existed, because of the philosophical proposition EX NIHILO NIHIL FIT.
This means "out of nothing, nothing comes."
This is the Latin philosophical expression for a thesis first attributed to Parmenides, in one of Plato's works, in the 5th century BC.
This understand that "nothing comes from nothing", is philosophically sound, scientifically sound, and also aligns with our common experience in life.
As some theologians have put it:
"If there was ever a time when there was nothing, there would be nothing still."
To clarify: theologians never thought the "universe" was eternal, but they did think that "something" was eternal, and that something was God. They didn't just believe God WAS eternal, but that he MUST BE eternal... because something had to exist eternally, or there would be no explanation for how anything ever came to be. "Out of nothing, nothing comes."
Something cannot come from nothing.
So if there is something here now, then something, something of some kind, had to be eternal... or nothing could be here now.
So in past cosmology, everyone believed in the eternal.
Atheists believed the universe was eternal.
Theists believed God was eternal, and he created the universe.
Since there is "stuff" here now, and it cannot come from nothing... then SOMETHING had to be eternal.
3.) The dilemma and modern cosmology.
So atheists thought the universe was eternal... and then one day that all changed.
Edwin Hubbel discovered the red shift, and in 1929 reported that the red shift was proof that the universe was NOT eternal. The universe had a beginning. Then other discoveries were made which corroborated this conclusion about the universe having a beginning. Now, it is widely accepted, and science does indeed seem to show, that the universe was not eternal, but had a beginning. This beginning is referred to as the Big Bang.
The universe (comprising ALL matter, space, and even time) was not eternal. And for some inextricable reason, at some point, it simply came into being.
The theist has no problem with this, because all of these discoveries fit perfectly with his beliefs.
But the atheist is in a terribly quandry... he's left trying to explain why "something" suddenly popped out of "nothing."
This has led to endless debates, and even terrible philosophy books written by famous physicists who don't know anything about philosophy. (Cough cough, Stephen Hawking.)
4.) The dilemma, as reconciled in Christianity.
A.) The atheist has no explanation for any of this, other than "something popped out of nothing"... which is impossible in both physics and philosophy. It simply cannot happen.
(Physicists will sometimes claim it is possible in physics, but then they go on to equivocate on terms, and essentially state a different case altogether. Essentially, they have no explanation, so they come up with a fake explanation they try to pass off by changing definitions of words. It's what very smart people often do when they can't win an argument... they begin to lie, and cheat by changing the argument to something else.)
B.) The Christian, however, has a very sound and coherent explanation.
There IS something eternal, which is God. And this eternal being created the universe, which we know is NOT eternal.
This is all logically coherent.
Keep in mind, that for centuries, if not millennia, atheists thought the universe was simply eternal... they NEVER HAD ANY ISSUE WITH SAYING SOMETHING WAS ETERNAL.
They didn't need to explain it, they didn't need to figure it out... they were fine just saying the universe was eternal.
They had no issue with the concept of something being eternal.
They only have an issue with the concept of "eternality" if the eternal thing is God... an eternal thing which they dislike.
CONCLUSION:
A.) There is nothing illogical about claiming something is eternal. Atheists, until recently, never had any philosophical problem believing in the eternal.
B.) Many atheists STILL believe in the eternal. Many believe certain abstract objects are eternal... things like math, moral virtues, or natural laws.
C.) So atheists have NEVER had a dilemma believing in the concept of the eternal, and many still do believe in the concept of the eternal (many physicists claim laws of physics, like gravity, are transcendent and eternal)... so atheists clearly have no problem believing in the concept of the eternal.
D.) Something MUST BE ETERNAL, or there would be nothing here now. From nothing, nothing comes. If atheists believe in the eternal, and require of themselves no explanation of how anything eternal came to be... then Christians certainly have no burden or liability to explain the eternal either.
E.) We have no explanation for how God came to be, except that he did not. He did not "come to be", he has just "always been." If it's any comfort, consider these 3 final points:
1 - atheists have no issue with the concept of eternality when it comes to the particular things they believe in.
2- something, something of some kind, MUST be eternal... as eternality is an absolute necessity of logic, philosophy, and physics... if SOMETHING was not eternal, then nothing would be here now.
3 - God truly is the best logical explanation for how all things came to be... but that is a different set of arguments.
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Imagine all of the facts, wisdom, and knowledge that exist.
Now take away all of the material universe and all of the persons who may inhabit it.
Whether there is anyone around conscious of anything, isn’t it true that all of this information is still real regardless of if anyone existed to be aware of it?
I’m sorry if that doesn’t make sense because I’m having a bit of a difficult time explaining it.
Anyway, that’s kinda how God is I think. He’s omniscient, all powerful, and exists everywhere. Why? Because it’s a fact. We can’t explain why facts are facts, they just are because that’s how it is.
If literal physical water didn’t exist anymore, wouldn’t it still be a fact that water is H2O? This is just information that is a fact. Why is it a fact? Because that’s how it is.
Now take away all of the material universe and all of the persons who may inhabit it.
Whether there is anyone around conscious of anything, isn’t it true that all of this information is still real regardless of if anyone existed to be aware of it?
I’m sorry if that doesn’t make sense because I’m having a bit of a difficult time explaining it.
Anyway, that’s kinda how God is I think. He’s omniscient, all powerful, and exists everywhere. Why? Because it’s a fact. We can’t explain why facts are facts, they just are because that’s how it is.
If literal physical water didn’t exist anymore, wouldn’t it still be a fact that water is H2O? This is just information that is a fact. Why is it a fact? Because that’s how it is.
One only has two options. Either an eternal nothingness (meaning again, "no-thing," not even quantum particles) brought forth something from absolute nothingness, or an eternal Being brought everything that exists into being. The latter makes far more sense as the first pretense is absolutely impossible.
The integrated complexities of our DNA, little machine-like mechanisms, make it hopelessly impossible to think everyone's DNA found the exact placement and accidentally bumped into perfect placings, along with animals, flowers, sand at the beach et al.
So since we do exist in an eternal masterpiece of existence, we know there is a Creator, the God of agape love who is perfect in all His ways as presented in the Bible.
Why does He exist, He is eternal w/benefits, thank God.
The integrated complexities of our DNA, little machine-like mechanisms, make it hopelessly impossible to think everyone's DNA found the exact placement and accidentally bumped into perfect placings, along with animals, flowers, sand at the beach et al.
So since we do exist in an eternal masterpiece of existence, we know there is a Creator, the God of agape love who is perfect in all His ways as presented in the Bible.
Why does He exist, He is eternal w/benefits, thank God.
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Final Thought, on Reframing Issues:
If it seems like I changed the subject a bit, in my above post, that was intentional.
Sometimes we can frame a question in a way that only makes it more confusing.
In scripture, we often see Christ reframe an issue, so that he can bypass the confusion, and get back to the real, underlying truth.
This is Biblical.
Above I was trying to reframe things to clear up the "strangeness" of eternality.
Because whereas it seems natural to question this strange concept of eternality... the reality is, the concept of eternality is actually NECESSARY for our existence! Something must be eternal, or nothing can be here at all. Eternality is a NECESSITY... if there is no eternality, we cannot exist.
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If it seems like I changed the subject a bit, in my above post, that was intentional.
Sometimes we can frame a question in a way that only makes it more confusing.
In scripture, we often see Christ reframe an issue, so that he can bypass the confusion, and get back to the real, underlying truth.
This is Biblical.
Above I was trying to reframe things to clear up the "strangeness" of eternality.
Because whereas it seems natural to question this strange concept of eternality... the reality is, the concept of eternality is actually NECESSARY for our existence! Something must be eternal, or nothing can be here at all. Eternality is a NECESSITY... if there is no eternality, we cannot exist.
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P
I think your answer lies in gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. As we go on we see...and all that is with in.
So the question I think should be.....why do we exist.
God has always existed. He has purposed all that he's created. So our quest is to ask what have you purposed for me Lord?
His never failing love of which he is needs to be shared. For GOD is love.
Psalms 139:15-18 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.
So the question I think should be.....why do we exist.
God has always existed. He has purposed all that he's created. So our quest is to ask what have you purposed for me Lord?
His never failing love of which he is needs to be shared. For GOD is love.
Psalms 139:15-18 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.
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God has no beginning and no end. He is the always existing one ( I AM that I AM). He invented time and space so created beings could have a frame of reference. He does not need it. My feeling is your question will have to wait until eternity, and even then it may be beyond our ability to understand.
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Lots to unpack there. However, one point is unable to be substantiated.
''D.) Something MUST BE ETERNAL, or there would be nothing here now.''
Mortal consciousness cannot arrive at such a conclusion.
Planets die. Stars go super nova. No thing is able to be proven eternal through our rationalization of reality.
That is one of the factors that contribute to the definition of faith.
Even God being whom we read God to be.
Because a book was created by mortal humans who ask us to accept its contents are of a God who essentially gave dictation. And men received the communication. All this is granted true by faith it is true.
Romans 1:20, Paul said,
for the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
We are created in the image and likeness of God, whose word tells us he has the same emotional personality as we do.
We cannot know anything is eternal.
Faith is not a product of fact.
Hebrews 11.
''D.) Something MUST BE ETERNAL, or there would be nothing here now.''
Mortal consciousness cannot arrive at such a conclusion.
Planets die. Stars go super nova. No thing is able to be proven eternal through our rationalization of reality.
That is one of the factors that contribute to the definition of faith.
Even God being whom we read God to be.
Because a book was created by mortal humans who ask us to accept its contents are of a God who essentially gave dictation. And men received the communication. All this is granted true by faith it is true.
Romans 1:20, Paul said,
for the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
We are created in the image and likeness of God, whose word tells us he has the same emotional personality as we do.
We cannot know anything is eternal.
Faith is not a product of fact.
Hebrews 11.
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You can read every answer and choose whether to find them acceptable or not, but the truth is no one knows.
We know that God existed long before the Universe and planet Earth.
We know that God was not created but eternally existed and will exist forever.
What we can ASSUME is that God wanted to create Heaven, the Angels, the Universe, and humanity. We can assume that based upon the fact that God created to be in RELATIONSHIP with His creation. We understand this because we who Follow God are in a RELATIONSHIP with Him.
Ultimately, I would conclude we exist to be in a RELATIONSHIP with God.
God also desires to be in a RELATIONSHIP with YOU!
We know that God existed long before the Universe and planet Earth.
We know that God was not created but eternally existed and will exist forever.
What we can ASSUME is that God wanted to create Heaven, the Angels, the Universe, and humanity. We can assume that based upon the fact that God created to be in RELATIONSHIP with His creation. We understand this because we who Follow God are in a RELATIONSHIP with Him.
Ultimately, I would conclude we exist to be in a RELATIONSHIP with God.
God also desires to be in a RELATIONSHIP with YOU!
1.) The philosophical statement I made, that "something must be eternal", has been known, understood, and believed by virtually everyone, theist and atheist, for thousands of years. It is also proven by logic, philosophy, and science.
2.) That statement also has nothing to do with God, and you tried to disprove it by making some argument about God - you can't disprove it by arguing about God, because it's a philosophical principle that has nothing to do with God.
Arguing about this is like arguing that water isn't wet, or arguing that you don't exist.
You can argue about anything... but that doesn't mean your argument about "anything" is actually rational.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time debating things that are literally irrational to debate.
If anyone has sincere questions, and the propositions I presented seem unclear or confusing... people are welcome to pm, as always, at any time.
Take care everyone. Have a lovely weekend.
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I posted about the NECESSITY OF ETERNAL EXISTENCE, in a post about God's ETERNAL EXISTENCE.
There are known philosophical principles, that transcend religious views, that verify the necessity of eternality.
Such principles are not about God... but they do corroborate christian beliefs.
Take care.
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There are known philosophical principles, that transcend religious views, that verify the necessity of eternality.
Such principles are not about God... but they do corroborate christian beliefs.
Take care.
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